If you had two minutes with the Pope - Page 3

Sam · #21 12-15-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Didn't mean to come off brash on that one - but goodness. We have plenty of opportunities to talk about these things on their own merit. This was about the Pope and what I got was generalities and potshots on how Pentecost is "just as much" full of false doctrine as the RCC! Amazing to me.

Now, Jeffrey, you shoulda known we would have reactions like that on here.

The way the UPC was set up in 1945, there is room within the organization for those who believe salvation is by faith prior to and separate from baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit and for those who believe baptism is a birth of water that washes away sins.

Bro. Haney's farewell sermon at GC reaffirmed that the UPC agrees with the RCC when it comes to baptism. I guess as the (retiring) pope of the UPC he can speak for the organization but what he said is not agreed to by all in the organization.

If we can have differences of opinion amongst ourselves in the UPC on how to be born again; how long is long; will viewing tv/internet send you to hell; how much, if any, jewelry can a person wear and make it in the rapture; how much money goes to the pastor; preterism or rapture; etc we should be able to accept others outside our little elite group who do not agree with us on everything.

I made the comment about praying the Apostles' Creed and I actually meant it. I can accept anyone as a brother or sister who believes that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again and as a result of that belief confesses Jesus as Lord. In my opinion what is important is the heart. We're all trying to get our heads right.

deltaguitar · #22 12-15-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Is this thread about what you would ask the Pope or is it about you, the UPC and Justification by faith?

The blog post brought back a lot of stuff that I had been through concerning this topic. I mention the UPC because in my experience justification by faith is not taught in the UPC as well as the Catholic church.

If you think the UPC teaches justification by faith, and I am sure you do, then show me.

Sam · #23 12-15-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

...
If you think the UPC teaches justification by faith, and I am sure you do, then show me.

Some sorta do
check out "The Role of Faith in Justification" by Bro. Segraves.

I can send you a copy of the document as an email attachement if you give me your email address. It is too large to attach here.

Praxeas · #24 12-15-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

The blog post brought back a lot of stuff that I had been through concerning this topic. I mention the UPC because in my experience justification by faith is not taught in the UPC as well as the Catholic church.

If you think the UPC teaches justification by faith, and I am sure you do, then show me.

Ill ask again, what is the topic?

Jeffrey · #25 12-15-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Now, Jeffrey, you shoulda known we would have reactions like that on here.

The way the UPC was set up in 1945, there is room within the organization for those who believe salvation is by faith prior to and separate from baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit and for those who believe baptism is a birth of water that washes away sins.

Bro. Haney's farewell sermon at GC reaffirmed that the UPC agrees with the RCC when it comes to baptism. I guess as the (retiring) pope of the UPC he can speak for the organization but what he said is not agreed to by all in the organization.

If we can have differences of opinion amongst ourselves in the UPC on how to be born again; how long is long; will viewing tv/internet send you to hell; how much, if any, jewelry can a person wear and make it in the rapture; how much money goes to the pastor; preterism or rapture; etc we should be able to accept others outside our little elite group who do not agree with us on everything.

I made the comment about praying the Apostles' Creed and I actually meant it. I can accept anyone as a brother or sister who believes that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again and as a result of that belief confesses Jesus as Lord. In my opinion what is important is the heart. We're all trying to get our heads right.

So please answer the question: Will false prophets and false teachers make it?

2 John 1:10-11 ESV / 8 helpful votes
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

2 John 1:7 ESV / 6 helpful votes
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Revelation 2:2 ESV / 5 helpful votes
“‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.

2 John 1:10 ESV / 5 helpful votes
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,

2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

Romans 16:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

2Peter 2:1
"But there were False Prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be False Teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
even denying the LORD that bought them,
and bring upon themselves swift destruction"

So if idol worship and works-based theology (at its very core) is presented instead of the Gospel... if the worship of Saints and of Mary is part of church doctrine, if their Pope can add to the Text, and speak with the authority of Scripture, that's all fine and dandy????

Please answer without a swipe at Pentecost. Can you do it?

Jeffrey · #26 12-15-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

The blog post brought back a lot of stuff that I had been through concerning this topic. I mention the UPC because in my experience justification by faith is not taught in the UPC as well as the Catholic church.

If you think the UPC teaches justification by faith, and I am sure you do, then show me.

Delta, sorry buddy. More hogwash! Of course they preach justification by faith.

Praxeas · #27 12-15-2009, 05:36 PM

define justification lol

Sam · #28 12-15-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

So please answer the question: Will false prophets and false teachers make it?
...
Please answer without a swipe at Pentecost. Can you do it?

OK, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.

If a person is a "false prophet", in the sense that he/she seeks to turn you from the one true God, to follow false gods, I don't see how that person can make it.

If the person is a "false prophet" in the sense that he/she disagrees with you in your teaching on water baptism, spiritual gifts, church government, etc but has made a personal commitment to Jesus, I don't see how that person cannot make it.

The reason I brought up some of these "inconsistencies" in Pentecost is that I was trying to show that just because someone believes differently than you does not mean that person is a "false" prophet. We have, in Oneness Pentecost, various and conflicting beliefs. So, if we can accept conflicting beliefs in Oneness Pentecost, why can't we accept others outside of Pentecost who have beliefs that conflict with ours?

Hoovie · #29 12-15-2009, 08:03 PM

So being star quarterback and a beauty queen does not gel with being Pentecostal??

I think it quite possibly could.

deltaguitar · #30 12-15-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Some sorta do
check out "The Role of Faith in Justification" by Bro. Segraves.

I can send you a copy of the document as an email attachement if you give me your email address. It is too large to attach here.

Remember, it was from Dr. Seagraves that helped me with a lot of this. He did teach justification by faith according to his class at CLC on Romans and Galatians. Dr. Seagraves taught directly from the bible and it opened my eyes. If what he was saying was true then the UPC version of justification by faith was wrong.