The catching away

[shag]

Matt.21:33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” 41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
The stone which the builders rejecte Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the LORD’s doing,And it is marvelous in our eyes’? (Also see:Acts4:11)

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them


Matt. 23:31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



Jesus took the Kingdom from them, and gave it to another bearing fruit of it, Jew, Gentile..Samaritin.. etc. All can get in the Kingdom, thru the "way of the cross", and thru His name. When those that killed the prophets that Jesus sent, and killed Him, and chose not to repent, they THEY later took the fall/wrath for their fathers doing the same(Matt. 23:31-35). It was called "a coming" (in Matt. 21:40) of the owner of the vineyard, as being connected with them being destroyed ,losing the Kingdom, to the NT Kingdom (the True Israel of God). The Kigdom was taken from them long ago, along with the Temple they were so proud of (Matt. 24:2).

(Thats why John came preaching "REPENT the kingdom is at hand!, and "who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?!!)

(MHO)

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by shag

Matt.21:33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” 41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
The stone which the builders rejecte Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the LORD’s doing,And it is marvelous in our eyes’? (Also see:Acts4:11)

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them


Matt. 23:31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



Jesus took the Kingdom from them, and gave it to another bearing fruit of it, Jew, Gentile..Samaritin.. etc. All can get in the Kingdom, thru the "way of the cross", and thru His name. When those that killed the prophets that Jesus sent, and killed Him, and chose not to repent, they THEY later took the fall/wrath for their fathers doing the same(Matt. 23:31-35). It was called "a coming" (in Matt. 21:40) of the owner of the vineyard, as being connected with them being destroyed ,losing the Kingdom, to the NT Kingdom (the True Israel of God). The Kigdom was taken from them long ago, along with the Temple they were so proud of (Matt. 24:2).

(Thats why John came preaching "REPENT the kingdom is at hand!, and "who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?!!)

(MHO)

Bro. Shag,
Very good post and easy to be understood. We get the Word into our
hearts and then when we receive the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Truth),
our understanding is opened, that we might understand the scriptures.

Growing up in the church, I remember thinking as a young teenager, "I
don't understand many things. I believe in the Holy Ghost, but I don't
understand it. At eighteen, I did receive the Holy Ghost and still at first
did not understand the Godhead, etc. But as I grew in Him, my under-
standing was opened a little at a time. Through the years, many things
have been made plain to me. I agree with Bro. Blume about answering
a matter before we have heard it, it is foolish and a shame unto him.

Proverbs 18:13 KJV He that answereth a matter before he heareth
it, it is folly and shame unto him. When we refuse to hear something
just because we don't like the source it comes from, is foolish.

It's like someone saying, "I don't want to hear it because even if it is
the truth, I won't receive or believe. That is very foolish indeed!

I personally feel it is dangerous for an organization to select a few men
to come up with a decision on what/where the whole organization will
believe concerning some things. I want to trust my soul to the ONE who
can save me and HE has the answers and will reveal His Will to me, IF I
seek/trust the matter into HIS Hands! We are each individually responsible
to seek out our own salvation with fear and trembling. He will not lead us
down the wrong path.

Falla39

[easter]

Originally Posted by shag

Matt.21:33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” 41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
The stone which the builders rejecte Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the LORD’s doing,And it is marvelous in our eyes’? (Also see:Acts4:11)

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them


Matt. 23:31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



Jesus took the Kingdom from them, and gave it to another bearing fruit of it, Jew, Gentile..Samaritin.. etc. All can get in the Kingdom, thru the "way of the cross", and thru His name. When those that killed the prophets that Jesus sent, and killed Him, and chose not to repent, they THEY later took the fall/wrath for their fathers doing the same(Matt. 23:31-35). It was called "a coming" (in Matt. 21:40) of the owner of the vineyard, as being connected with them being destroyed ,losing the Kingdom, to the NT Kingdom (the True Israel of God). The Kigdom was taken from them long ago, along with the Temple they were so proud of (Matt. 24:2).

(Thats why John came preaching "REPENT the kingdom is at hand!, and "who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?!!)

(MHO)

Great post

[easter]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. Shag,
Very good post and easy to be understood. We get the Word into our
hearts and then when we receive the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Truth),
our understanding is opened, that we might understand the scriptures.

Growing up in the church, I remember thinking as a young teenager, "I
don't understand many things. I believe in the Holy Ghost, but I don't
understand it. At eighteen, I did receive the Holy Ghost and still at first
did not understand the Godhead, etc. But as I grew in Him, my under-
standing was opened a little at a time. Through the years, many things
have been made plain to me. I agree with Bro. Blume about answering
a matter before we have heard it, it is foolish and a shame unto him.

Proverbs 18:13 KJV He that answereth a matter before he heareth
it, it is folly and shame unto him. When we refuse to hear something
just because we don't like the source it comes from, is foolish.

It's like someone saying, "I don't want to hear it because even if it is
the truth, I won't receive or believe. That is very foolish indeed!

I personally feel it is dangerous for an organization to select a few men
to come up with a decision on what/where the whole organization will
believe concerning some things. I want to trust my soul to the ONE who
can save me and HE has the answers and will reveal His Will to me, IF I
seek/trust the matter into HIS Hands! We are each individually responsible
to seek out our own salvation with fear and trembling. He will not lead us
down the wrong path.

Falla39

Falla what you may call foolish,others call it discernment.I know enough about the scriptures to know these two teachings talked about by Blume is a false doctrine.So no I don't need to look into these teachings but thanks for your ideal anyways.I'm not arguing with anyone about this either.It's a shame and disgrace that this Christian forum has a wealth of information on the Bible.The one thing I see lacking here in the fellowship on this board,YOU FOLKS DON"T LOVE EACH OTHER.You people are ready to lash out at any given time.
I started this thread to see if other Christians were watchman for the Lord.To see if there is some here who study prophecies.I did not start this thread to debate on whose theory might or might not be wrong.In fact unless someone is watching for the Lord's return,that's all I simply want to know.I'm not interested in whatever else a person thinks might be wise or foolish.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by easter

Falla what you may call foolish,others call it discernment.I know enough about the scriptures to know these two teachings talked about by Blume is a false doctrine.So no I don't need to look into these teachings but thanks for your ideal anyways.I'm not arguing with anyone about this either.It's a shame and disgrace that this Christian forum has a wealth of information on the Bible.The one thing I see lacking here in the fellowship on this board,YOU FOLKS DON"T LOVE EACH OTHER.You people are ready to lash out at any given time.
I started this thread to see if other Christians were watchman for the Lord.To see if there is some here who study prophecies.I did not start this thread to debate on whose theory might or might not be wrong.In fact unless someone is watching for the Lord's return,that's all I simply want to know.I'm not interested in whatever else a person thinks might be wise or foolish.

A bee fly down the front of your shirt or something?

Or maybe need a little more fiber in your diet?

Or your favorite dog Lucky, just passed away? (So sorry if this is the case...)

[easter]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

A bee fly down the front of your shirt or something?

Or maybe need a little more fiber in your diet?

Or your favorite dog Lucky, just passed away? (So sorry if this is the case...)

yeah guess it would appear to be so

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Partial preterism also espouses a rapture. It's just that nothing occurs after the rapture on earth except whatever is in store for earth after the white throne.

Bro. Blume, what do you think about Chilton's commentary, Days of Vengeance?

[Godsdrummer]

Quote by Easter
I started this thread to see if other Christians were watchman for the Lord.To see if there is some here who study prophecies.I did not start this thread to debate on whose theory might or might not be wrong.In fact unless someone is watching for the Lord's return,that's all I simply want to know.I'm not interested in whatever else a person thinks might be wise or foolish.

Easter,
There are some things that must be looked at even if you think they are false doctrine. First to prove whether they are right or wrong. Just because something goes against what you have been taught all your life does not mean it is wrong. Second how will you know it is right or wrong unless you study it out. We are not talking about a unbiblical doctrine here. As for those that study prophecy, one can make prophecy fit any time period just as you can make the word say almost anything. I have seen preachers take scripture out of context to preach against so many things it is unreal. Paul tells us we are to study.... rightly dividing the word.

Quote by Aquila
Bro. Blume, what do you think about Chilton's commentary, Days of Vengeance?

Bro if I might comment, I think Chilton's commentary is great and right on target. I have it on pdf.

Shag
That was a great post.

[Godsdrummer]

Just for the record, I feel the resurection happend in 70ad now when this body dies we go straight to be with the Lord. Did Jesus not tell Mary that he was the resurection and live and whosoever believes in him shall never die.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The saints that were dead rose after the resurection of Christ. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet them in the air. I don't see this as a group cathing away I see this as individual cathing away at the end of this natural life. Remmember Jesus teaching that he that endureth to the end the same shall be saved.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Just for the record, I feel the resurection happend in 70ad now when this body dies we go straight to be with the Lord. Did Jesus not tell Mary that he was the resurection and live and whosoever believes in him shall never die.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The saints that were dead rose after the resurection of Christ. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet them in the air. I don't see this as a group cathing away I see this as individual cathing away at the end of this natural life. Remmember Jesus teaching that he that endureth to the end the same shall be saved.

Interesting perspective. But Paul wrote,

I Thessalonians 4:16-17
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The language Paul uses is future tense, "shall descend", "shall rise", "Then we", "shall be", "shall we". All of this is something that hasn't happened yet. If the dead in Christ rising took place after Christ rose from the dead Paul would have said that the dead in Christ "did rise". And if the "rapture" is happening to us as individuals at death Paul would have written, "We who are alive and remain are being caught up..."

Paul use of language demands that the dead rising and the gathering of the living saints is something yet to take place.

Just my thoughts guys.