WPF Fears not realized, it was Relevancy, Stupid?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by StMark

You are certainly on to something. I am seeing it and hearing about it on a weekly basis.

That last Youth Congress was like a 8.0 earth quake. This year the UPC is changing it back to traditional. I think the them is "Discovering our Apostolic Roots" or something like that. And they are choosing mostly older preachers who will drive that point home to the youth

That outta get the yutes shaking in their boots!

[jrpreacher]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, in my opinion (although nobody asked me for my opinion) Scott is more in line with the NT.

I agree with u to a point. I see the many benifits to cell groups I also see the mighty power that comes in when 100+ people are all gathered in one mind and one accord!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by jrpreacher

I agree with u to a point. I see the many benifits to cell groups I also see the mighty power that comes in when 100+ people are all gathered in one mind and one accord!

Looks like the infant church in the Book of Acts met in homes and also met in the Temple with the other Jewish people. Conversions and the impartation of the Holy Spirit could take place in homes or in the Temple in groups and baptism would have been by self-immersion in the mikveh baths of the temple or any place where there was enough water.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Acts 2:46-47 KJV (the Authorized Version of the Anglican Church)

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by StMark

You are certainly on to something. I am seeing it and hearing about it on a weekly basis.

That last Youth Congress was like a 8.0 earth quake. This year the UPC is changing it back to traditional. I think the them is "Discovering our Apostolic Roots" or something like that. And they are choosing mostly older preachers who will drive that point home to the youth

Great, maybe somebody is waking up in HQ and realizing what is going on.
It's about time someone took a stand and turn thing back on the right path.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Great, maybe somebody is waking up in HQ and realizing what is going on.
It's about time someone took a stnad and turn thing back on the right path.

Yep those stnad's make a difference!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I have a good friend named Scott who is a "simple church" pastor. They meet in his home at least twice a week, and they have a meal on Sunday evenings in which they partake in the Lord's Supper. He has roughly 15 people meeting in his home. They have one member who plays an acoustic guitar and they sing and worship together until they feel the Spirit move them on to the Bible study. The study is typically a reading from a chapter or sometimes an entire passage. Then Scott shares what he felt the Holy Spirit impress upon him about the passage, then the floor is opened up for group discussion and everyone shares how the passage spoke to them. Often people open up and weep and are prayed for. It's very informal, jeans and casuals are fine. They often have a snack and pastries on the coffee table throughout the study and the smell of fresh brewed coffee permeates the house. They don't take up a tithe, Scott doesn't believe in it. When asked about it he says, "I work for a living, just like everyone else." He works for a trucking company and puts in at least 40 hours a week and supports his family. When they take up an offering it's always for a specific purpose. For example there was a sister who's car broke down and she couldn't afford to have it fixed. He called the group to take up an offering to help her pay for the necessary repairs and she didn't have to worry about a rental or catching the bus to get to work. They take care of their own. Scott is blasted for being in the Relevancy movement.

On the other hand I know a wonderful traditional UPCI church of about 150-200. They have several wonderful programs launched occasionally throughout the year. The pastor doesn't like Scott. He say's Scott's group is just "Dunking doughnuts for Jesus."

Here's the deal, the traditional church has been running only 150-200 people for nearly 11 years. Scott's group is only 3 years old and they have multiplied into 8 different home based church meetings averaging at least 10 people each. In three years time Scott went from a 10-12 member house church to overseeing 9 different meetings in the network averaging at least 10 people each. That's nearly 90 people now. Scott states that there are about 5 new pastors being raised up and will be trained to start house church meetings in their homes within the next couple months. Typically they branch off with about 4 or so members and multiply rather quickly. Scott predicts that within then next 4 months the 90 people he's overseeing in network will be 140 easy when these new works get going. But here's the deal, by that time a hand full of new simple church meetings will be ready to be launched. He envisions a day when each house church will be ready to launch another, doubling their number overnight. The potential to have well over 1,000 people in network in roughly 5 to 10 years is very real.

Scott's group appears to be growing quickly and there is an excitement and enthusiasm that they have. It's very simple and isn't much like the institutional church. However, he used to attend a UPCI church and teaches Acts 2:38. Which is truly advancing the kingdom? Our "Relevant" brother or the traditional church?

I love this story!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jrpreacher

Offerings and tithes are a sacrifical praise to God!

Who is the sheperd when family confilcts and misfortune arise Well this Bro. Scott is out driving trucks?

It's more like an eldership. They don't have "positions". They don't see it as the "office of a pastor" but rather more like the "ministry of a pastor". Each small group has a couple elders that may be approached for prayer or counsel at any given time. Since each group is typically between 12 and 15 people they aren't overwhelmed.

They don't believe that tithing is NT command. They are pretty strict on that. For example, the Law demands tithing only on grain and the harvest. Nothing said about trades etc. For example, a fisherman wasn't bound to tithe under the Law. Neither was a carpenter. The tithe was directly connected to the land. In NT times the first Christians owned very little land, most were Roman slaves. They didn't "tithe" as under the Law. One reason, the Law demanded three tithes: the Levitical tithe to the Levites (the church didn't have Levites), the Temple Tithe to maintain the Temple (after the break from Judaism Christians didn't tithe to support the temple), and the Poor tithe to be stored in the Temple storehouse and to be given to the poor (Christians didn't give to the Temple storehouse, they gave directly to those in need). Christians were VERY generous when giving to those in need and when giving to support an evangelists travels. However, once on the field most Christians evangelists (including Paul) were skilled in a trade and supported themselves (for example Paul supported his ministry via tent making). The tithe wasn't required.

Bro. Scott is more of a facilitator, and the men of the fellowship operate as a team to meet the body's needs.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sam

Where in Ohio?

Last time I spoke to him he was in a home in the Dayton area on a street right off Wyoming.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jrpreacher

I agree with u to a point. I see the many benifits to cell groups I also see the mighty power that comes in when 100+ people are all gathered in one mind and one accord!

Most who do the house churching thing do try to meet as a large group in a rented facility every so often.

[jrpreacher]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's more like an eldership. They don't have "positions". They don't see it as the "office of a pastor" but rather more like the "ministry of a pastor". Each small group has a couple elders that may be approached for prayer or counsel at any given time. Since each group is typically between 12 and 15 people they aren't overwhelmed.

They don't believe that tithing is NT command. They are pretty strict on that. For example, the Law demands tithing only on grain and the harvest. Nothing said about trades etc. For example, a fisherman wasn't bound to tithe under the Law. Neither was a carpenter. The tithe was directly connected to the land. In NT times the first Christians owned very little land, most were Roman slaves. They didn't "tithe" as under the Law. One reason, the Law demanded three tithes: the Levitical tithe to the Levites (the church didn't have Levites), the Temple Tithe to maintain the Temple (after the break from Judaism Christians didn't tithe to support the temple), and the Poor tithe to be stored in the Temple storehouse and to be given to the poor (Christians didn't give to the Temple storehouse, they gave directly to those in need). Christians were VERY generous when giving to those in need and when giving to support an evangelists travels. However, once on the field most Christians evangelists (including Paul) were skilled in a trade and supported themselves (for example Paul supported his ministry via tent making). The tithe wasn't required.

Bro. Scott is more of a facilitator, and the men of the fellowship operate as a team to meet the body's needs.

I see! Thank you for your explanation. I don't think tithing is a law but I see many blessing from cheerful giving!