Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Sam

Their summary of beliefs looks like good old Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness to me:

We Believe:

…in one God, revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Duet. 6:4, II Cor. 13:14, John 1:1).

…that our Lord Jesus Christ was the only begotten of the Father, and is truly God and truly man. He was born of the virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, died a vicarious and atoning death for the sins of the world, resurrected bodily for our justification, and now reigns in glory until all things be put under his feet (I Tim 3:16).

…in the absolute inspiration of the Holy Scriptures in their original autographs given by the Holy Spirit as He moved upon holy men of old. Furthermore, we believe that the Holy Bible accepted as Canon by the early Christian Church to be the only written Word of God (2 Pet 1:21).

…that man was made in the image of God and is by the reason of “the Fall” alienated from his creator. Apart from God’s grace he has no ability to attain relationship with God (Psa. 8, Eph. 2:8-9).

…in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross in our place, as the supreme sacrifice for sin, was buried in a tomb, but rose again the third day and reigns in glory interceding for us (I John 2:1).

...that justification is by grace through faith in the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:21-24).

…all believers should be buried with Christ Jesus in the waters of baptism (Acts 2:38, Rom. 6:3-5, Matt. 28:19).

…that the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance is an endowment of power given to the believer for sanctification and evangelism (Acts 1:8, 2:1-4, 19:1-2).

…that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are active in the church today (I Cor. 12:4-7).

…in the Five-Fold Ministry of Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers, for the perfecting of the saints to do the work of God (Eph. 4:11-16).

…that the believer called by the name of Christ should depart from iniquity, allowing the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Christ (2 Tim 2:19, Rom. 8:29).

…in the literal second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, the resurrection of the dead, and triumph of God’s Kingdom over Satan (Acts l:9-11, Daniel 12:2; Revelation 22:1-7).

If I did not know of this man, I'd say that he was not UPCI, because of the bolded.

"Justification" isn't that another way of saying, "you're saved"?

This is how I believe, but I KNOW that THIS IS NOT where most of the UPCI draws their "line" for salvation.

Or can one be "justified" and still go to hell upon death?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by trfrance

just because people might have questions about where he stands, that doesn't mean they are being negative, or trying to tear him down.

I agree.
Suber is one of the most well known figures in oneness pentecost. If he did, for whatever reason, shift his position, its something that's obviously going to make people take notice.. And understandably so.

As for me, i'll just say reading his articles of faith on his website,it reads more like what you'd see from a 1-stepper church than a 3-stepper church. The man can describe his doctrinal positions however he chooses... But if he is indeed still 3-stepper, it's not worded in such a way that would clearly show that he is. Simple fact is, as long as his website is worded the way it is, it's going to make people wonder what side of the fence he is on.

ditto

[TRFrance]

Well, I'll just speak plainly here. I don't care who gets mad.

From what I've observed, 1- steppers tend to be more vague in their doctrinal statements than 3-steppers.... and 1-steppers tend to get irritated and/or defensive moreso than 3-steppers, when asked to clarify what they really mean by a particular part of their doctrinal statement.

I'm sure there are multiple reasons for that. But I'll just leave it at that for now.
Just my observation.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, I'll just speak plainly here. I don't care who gets mad.

From what I've observed, 1- steppers tend to be more vague in their doctrinal statements than 3-steppers.... and 1-steppers tend to get irritated and/or defensive moreso than 3-steppers, when asked to clarify what they really mean by a particular part of their doctrinal statement.

I'm sure there are multiple reasons for that. But I'll just leave it at that for now.
Just my observation.

Can you point out one instance where a 1 stepper has gotten irritated and/or defensive moreso than 3 steppers?

The only people I know of that get defensive over a vague statement that appears to be 1 stepper are those that are actually 3 steppers but trying to put forth a vague statement of faith that is as inclusive as possible so as not to run off possible visitors before they even darken the doors of the church.

Why in the world would a true one stepper be defensive over their SOF?

[tv1a]

My initial question is are you planning to visit Shreveport soon?

Your posts brings up serious warning flags. Contrary to popular belief, there is more to the Bible than Acts 2:38. There are people who don't get salvation right, but they are on target on holy living, being fruitful christians, etc. We greatly do the body of Christ a disservice by discounting other denominations. I go to a Church of Christ college for my bachelor's degree. No one could pay me to attend an upci Bible college, truth or no truth. While I haven't change my doctrinal beliefs, my walk with God has been dramatically changed for the better by reading books from John Stott, CS Lewis, and from getting a fresh perspective from another view.

Your post exposed the fact many believe truth to be exclusive. Truth by definition is universal. John 3:16 is universal in any denomination. If truth is not universal, than it ceases to be truth. That's why I can visit a methodist church, go to a christmas mass at a catholic church, worship at World Harvest Church, pray at the nation's capitol with thousands of other people. We may have a key peice of the puzzle, but it isn't the only piece.

Originally Posted by 1399

If by continuing to post, I'm not respecting this Pastor and his new church, that's not my intention.

Please delete my post and "ding" me if I am out of line.

Church websites should not remove their doctrinal statements. There are folks, like me, who have hunted for a church to attend, found one online that I thought was Pentecostal only to find out they were Church of Christ.

It happens. If that church had been clearer about it's doctrinal statements and their affiliation, then I would not have wasted my gas.

If there is someone spending their time trying to find and instigate controversies, then they are wrong.

Clarity is the responsibility of the author.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by tv1a

My initial question is are you planning to visit Shreveport soon?
...
.

Years ago there was a large UPC in Shreveport pastored by Bro. Jack Moore.
Is that church still there and is it UPC?

[Sam]

Is this an acceptable statement of faith?
http://jesus-messiah.com/html/statement.html

[tv1a]

You are a saint, not a sinner. Point being a sinner cares less what a doctrinal statement is than we care to admit.

Originally Posted by Sarah

No, but I just might be scrolling through a website and say that's one I want to stay clear of!

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The website shouldn't be geared for church hoppers or out town visitors. A website should be geared to reaching the unsaved. The unsaved aren't going to give a flip what your doctrine is. If they feel the love of Jesus though the website, they will eat glass if they want what you have.

Ok, let's pretend this is fair. I'm a single mom with 4 kids. Going to church at all is a nightmare. I'm also desperate to be fed while at church. Ok. That's two strikes against visiting church after church just to find one that has a doctrine I can agree with.

FWIW, I'm not a church hopper. I don't post about the reason I left the church I did, because it doesn't really matter. Some people here go to churches like that and they're happy, some like me, have left churches like that because they weren't going to be ok there.

I did finally find a church, online, and moved 2000 miles to attend it. Crazy, I know, but I wouldn't change it for anything.

A website reaching the unsaved is an interesting idea. I'm not so sure it'd work very well, but it's interesting all the same. You do realize that the doctrinal statement is usually hidden pretty well on most church sites, right? And, you do realize that most people looking at a church website didn't stumble on it, they're looking for it, and the sort of people who are looking for a church online are probably going to be the people to whom a doctrinal statement does matter.

If they feel the love of Jesus though the website, they will eat glass if they want what you have.

Or move 2000 miles to attend the church... But that wasn't anything about the church website, it was about the people in the church who I met and got to know.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sam

Years ago there was a large UPC in Shreveport pastored by Bro. Jack Moore.
Is that church still there and is it UPC?

Jack Moore was influenced by the 'latter rain movement' they have not been UPC for decades it is a Charismatic church today.