Shaved to be saved

[Sam]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

Been in the UPC 35+ years. Although I could see this happening in more conservative/strict churches, I have never been in a UPC church were this has been preached from the pulpit.
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No one in this thread has proclaimed that. And no one has argued your point that shaving is not a requirement for salvation.
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Why are we even devoting this much time to a subject like men shaving their beards? Or women shaving their legs, underarms, etc? These are culture things and have nothing to do with Scripture.

Look at pictures of the old time Pentecostal leaders. Some of the men had sideburns, shaggy hair, and facial hair. It was not an issue.

Later, men began to go clean shaven with little or no facial hair. Again, just custom. During the nineteen sixties, long hair and facial hair began to appear among some as a form of protest. Because this was something "new" and a little different form the "norm" some preachers started teaching and preaching about it. They made themselves look silly with stating that Jesus had close cropped hair and was clean shaven. When the Bible prophesied about Jesus having his beard pulled out some preachers said that meant that the Roman soldiers used tweezers and pulled out what was just a few hours stubble. Again, this was just a "reaction" by some preachers to a change that was happening.

In our ALJC church we had a couple of young men who were preachers and they were called down in a UPC camp meeting down South because of their sideburns. They were told by some of the ministers that their sideburns were "offensive." A couple of young men in the church grew beards and our pastor told them they were not allowed on the platform nor could they take any active part in the church because of their beards. Yet at the same time he would allow a minister from a nearby PAW church on the platform and invite a young man from a nearby UPC church to sing even though they both had facial hair (mustache). The last service I attended at that church was on a Sunday night when the pastor declared from the platform as part of his Sunday night sermon, "The Bible says that a man is supposed to be clean shaven." That was enough ignorance and false teaching for me. I left that church and have not been a member of a Oneness Pentecostal church since. That was almost 30 years ago.

[TrmptPraise]

Sam,

That was my point. There is no biblical stance against facial hair. This teaching started infiltrating the church (no matter the org) during the protest era. No one on this thread stated that being clean shaven was sound doctrine. It's not. It is not salvational.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by alogi

First off I just want to know why do those of the UPCI and other Apostolic denominations hold to this pharisee doctrine.''Shave to be saved'
Again the logic here and common sense is this.We are talking about salvation and what shaving has to do with it.We are not talking about nail cutting or bathing.These are different issues.Why cant anyone stay on track here.Stop trying to side track the issue.
I am trying to stick with the shaving issue here.Everyone else wants to go on about, talking about some kind of bath or nail cutting.Do any of you believe that one has to take a bath before God will save them?If not why not.Most of yall seem that one has to be shaved, before God will save them.
Some here seem to be debating for that cause.
Again nails have nothing to do with taking a razor to ones face.let us use common sense here.We are taking about beards and mustaches not finger nails and not body odor.
Anyone can go to any alter stinking and God will save them. Being bathed is not a requirement,that God needs to accept a broken heart.
For what I have seen so far.I can only come to the conclusion that those that have answered here so far believe in works for salvation.I have came across this many times with in oneness ranks.This my friends is called pharisseeism.
One is not saved by works ,One is saved because they have obeyed God, not because they cut or allow their nails to grow out.One is saved because of obedience to Acts2;38,not because they shave or not.
All I am asking is for all pharisees to learn that they are not special,God does allow Holy man to wear beards.
Folks, let us use some little wisdom here.I havent seen any yet.

You've seen plenty of it, you just don't have the mental capacity to recognize it.

Let's forget about nails, baths, etc. for a minute.

Let me ask you a plain and simple question, and I hope I don't overload your synapses here, don't want to overheat the capacitors:

If you think a man should let his beard grow, do you believe he should let it grow untrimmed for as long as he lives?
Or is there an acceptable length for it to reach, and then he can trim it and shape it?

[George]

Visit the historical society of the UPC at WEC and you will find books of our forefathers sporting mustaches, beards, etc. It is not a heaven or hell issue.
Alogi, you are so focused on having facial hair that you cannot understand logic and reasoning. If you want facial hair that bad, go to a church where you don't feel condemned to have it. Don't make illogical argument just to have/get your way.

P.S. If a pastor chooses to teach against facial hair, that is his perogative. Don't try and change him. Church standards vary church to church.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by George

Visit the historical society of the UPC at WEC and you will find books of our forefathers sporting mustaches, beards, etc. It is not a heaven or hell issue.
Alogi, you are so focused on having facial hair that you cannot understand logic and reasoning. If you want facial hair that bad, go to a church where you don't feel condemned to have it. Don't make illogical argument just to have/get your way.

BTW, unless they have changed it in the last few months, the historical society is not open. All the artifacts are currently being stored next door. It unfortunate cause I live near there and used to to enjoy going in there from time to time.

[George]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

BTW, unless they have changed it in the last few months, the historical society is not open. All the artifacts are currently being stored next door. It unfortunate cause I live near there and used to to enjoy going in there from time to time.

My bad. Thanks for the correction. I haven't been there in a few years.

[alogi]

Again I stiil see a lack of wisdom here from a few here.Some have showed a little wisdom. Some just want to be wise guys. This is the same pharisee attitude that I have always receive from many so called Apostolics. When I bring this up
I dont believe a few here have neither the wisdom to grasp what this post is all about. Only the mind of a pharisee will ask questions, that would oppose one wearing facial hair.
This is a bad problem amongst oneness, yet pharisees are so hollier than though to see this fault.
I wouldnt want to preach in the pulpit of a pharisee.
Many times I have been called a liar by three God believers.Not once have they ever called me a ''bald face lair.'' There is meaning to these phrase.
Now some one here use the word conservative.That is rediculous.It is your churches that are mostly composed of pharisees.That called themselves conservative.Not really knowing what true conservatism really is.
Modesty is usaully defined by the culture that we live in.We as apostolics are not supposed to be of the world. The world says that we should shave so the so called apostolics say ''amen.''Then they follow the ways of the world and shave.I dont define my walk with the Lord by what the world says that I have to do.
You can shave your face all that you want and be a girly man.As for me I will define myself as a man and grow what God has given me to grow.
What is so sad about this all, is that we dont have enough Godly man with a back bone to stand up against this pharisee belief.And cry out about.
Lets see if some of the feeble minded here can grasp this.'' It is same God that gave ladies long hair to grow, that gave man facail hair to grow.'' Yet I can accept that a few pharisees here cannot accept that.Because they see their shaving of the face as being more hollier than though, than us who grow facial hair.
My friends dont be ashamed of facial hair.It snot a sin to grow facial Who was the bald face liar that told you ,that its was.

[George]

Alogi - do you have another forum id named Joelel? If not, you and him should get together and evangelize.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by alogi

Again I stiil see a lack of wisdom here from a few here.Some have showed a little wisdom. Some just want to be wise guys. This is the same pharisee attitude that I have always receive from many so called Apostolics. When I bring this up
I dont believe a few here have neither the wisdom to grasp what this post is all about. Only the mind of a pharisee will ask questions, that would oppose one wearing facial hair.
This is a bad problem amongst oneness, yet pharisees are so hollier than though to see this fault.
I wouldnt want to preach in the pulpit of a pharisee.
Many times I have been called a liar by three God believers.Not once have they ever called me a ''bald face lair.'' There is meaning to these phrase.
Now some one here use the word conservative.That is rediculous.It is your churches that are mostly composed of pharisees.That called themselves conservative.Not really knowing what true conservatism really is.
Modesty is usaully defined by the culture that we live in.We as apostolics are not supposed to be of the world. The world says that we should shave so the so called apostolics say ''amen.''Then they follow the ways of the world and shave.I dont define my walk with the Lord by what the world says that I have to do.
[b]You can shave your face all that you want and be a girly man.[b]As for me I will define myself as a man and grow what God has given me to grow.
What is so sad about this all, is that we dont have enough Godly man with a back bone to stand up against this pharisee belief.And cry out about.
Lets see if some of the feeble minded here can grasp this.'' It is same God that gave ladies long hair to grow, that gave man facail hair to grow.'' Yet I can accept that a few pharisees here cannot accept that.Because they see their shaving of the face as being more hollier than though, than us who grow facial hair.
My friends dont be ashamed of facial hair.It snot a sin to grow facial Who was the bald face liar that told you ,that its was.

I had respect for your position right up there to the girly man comment. I did laugh out loud at the last line though.

I will bow out now. Gracefully and with a full curtsy.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by alogi

Again I stiil see a lack of wisdom here from a few here.Some have showed a little wisdom. Some just want to be wise guys. This is the same pharisee attitude that I have always receive from many so called Apostolics. When I bring this up
I dont believe a few here have neither the wisdom to grasp what this post is all about. Only the mind of a pharisee will ask questions, that would oppose one wearing facial hair.
This is a bad problem amongst oneness, yet pharisees are so hollier than though to see this fault.
I wouldnt want to preach in the pulpit of a pharisee.
Many times I have been called a liar by three God believers.Not once have they ever called me a ''bald face lair.'' There is meaning to these phrase.
Now some one here use the word conservative.That is rediculous.It is your churches that are mostly composed of pharisees.That called themselves conservative.Not really knowing what true conservatism really is.
Modesty is usaully defined by the culture that we live in.We as apostolics are not supposed to be of the world. The world says that we should shave so the so called apostolics say ''amen.''Then they follow the ways of the world and shave.I dont define my walk with the Lord by what the world says that I have to do.
You can shave your face all that you want and be a girly man.As for me I will define myself as a man and grow what God has given me to grow.What is so sad about this all, is that we dont have enough Godly man with a back bone to stand up against this pharisee belief.And cry out about.
Lets see if some of the feeble minded here can grasp this.'' It is same God that gave ladies long hair to grow, that gave man facail hair to grow.'' Yet I can accept that a few pharisees here cannot accept that.Because they see their shaving of the face as being more hollier than though, than us who grow facial hair.
My friends dont be ashamed of facial hair.It snot a sin to grow facial Who was the bald face liar that told you ,that its was.

Feel like I'm dealing with a child here..............HOW LONG DO YOU LET YOUR BEARD GROW?