Christianity Without the Cross, By Thomas A. Fudge

[ChurchMouse]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

I have read it and have communicated with Thomas Fudge and his father.

My father was a friend of his dad.

My father preached at their church in New Brunswick Canada many times in the 1960's and 70's.

My dad passed away at 43 in 1978.

I was a member of a UPCI church my entire life.

I am now 43 and attend as of 2007 a non UPCI Pentecostal Oneness church.

I could not believe what I read in book.

How could so much of our history be left behind.

It gave me a fresh view of my history...

It is a great book..

N Eckstadt

I have started reading on the book, your right it is very informative. I am enjoying it so far. I have skimmed through some of the chapters, found names I know and comments that were made and so far it is accurate.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

My uncle some resources to the book and is quoted a few times. He was mentored by Bro. Fred Foster and a few others in Texas and has been licensed in the UPC for nearly 40 years now. While he was a bit put off by the books negative slant, fundamentally Fudge wrote a masterpiece on our movement. He flat out buries any one who would say he lies by his meticulous footnoting.

I think its a great book, and if anyone has a issue with it they should write a rebuttal of equal scholarly work with the same level of documentation of resources and interviews. If the best arguement other people can come up with is that its impolite to destroy someone's edited version of history by actually using the people who lived it, then maybe they need to go back into the archives of the Historical Society in Hazelwood and examine if what we are today is different that what the UPCI was the day it merged.

I liked this post...

Neck

[Neck]

Originally Posted by ChurchMouse

I have started reading on the book, your right it is very informative. I am enjoying it so far. I have skimmed through some of the chapters, found names I know and comments that were made and so far it is accurate.

I think it was just a great piece of work bringing these voices together for our history...

Neck

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

I think it was just a great piece of work bringing these voices together for our history...

Neck

So true because these voices are all but passed away now, correct?
Seems like he did a great job in securing the history of the merger almong other things.

Otherwise the truth no doubt would have been covered up in my opinion.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

My uncle some resources to the book and is quoted a few times. He was mentored by Bro. Fred Foster and a few others in Texas and has been licensed in the UPC for nearly 40 years now. While he was a bit put off by the books negative slant, fundamentally Fudge wrote a masterpiece on our movement. He flat out buries any one who would say he lies by his meticulous footnoting.

I think its a great book, and if anyone has a issue with it they should write a rebuttal of equal scholarly work with the same level of documentation of resources and interviews. If the best arguement other people can come up with is that its impolite to destroy someone's edited version of history by actually using the people who lived it, then maybe they need to go back into the archives of the Historical Society in Hazelwood and examine if what we are today is different that what the UPCI was the day it merged.

Excellent point!
Raven

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by ChurchMouse

I've seen mention of this book alot lately, before I buy it, I would like to know if anyone here has read it and if so, is it a good read, and accurate ?!

It's a great read. Everyone, even "ultra-cons" point out the important contributions it makes to OP history.

One flaw that I found was that the writer didn't appear to pick up on the nuances of S.G. Norris' teachings when Brother Norris was discussed. But that's probably a small detail.

Fudge basically gives a voice to the PCI men who came into the merger with an asumption that there would be unity and mutual respect. He then chronicles the growth of the "Water & Spirit" movement.

The title of the book, "Christianity Without the Cross" refers to the absence of any mention of the cross and atonement in the UPCI Fundamental Doctrine and Articles of Faith. Several UPC leaders are quoted as saying things like, "I didn't know that..."

[Coonskinner]

Interesting read, good historical information.

The title is a vile slander, however, and the author in a not so subtle way chooses and relates anecdotes designed to paint Apostolics as uneducated, overly emotional bumpkins.

Obviously the work of a bitter apostate, but I do appreciate the recording of some history that some are unaware of.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Interesting read, good historical information.

The title is a vile slander, however, and the author in a not so subtle way chooses and relates anecdotes designed to paint Apostolics as uneducated, overly emotional bumpkins.

Obviously the work of a bitter apostate, but I do appreciate the recording of some history that some are unaware of.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Interesting read, good historical information.

The title is a vile slander, however, and the author in a not so subtle way chooses and relates anecdotes designed to paint Apostolics as uneducated, overly emotional bumpkins.

Obviously the work of a bitter apostate, but I do appreciate the recording of some history that some are unaware of.

I guess I might have been wrong. Is the cross and atonement discussed in the Articles of Faith and the Fundamental Doctrine? I just looked again and didn't see "the Cross" mentioned.

If that is the case, and we don't have "the Cross" then we are indeed "without the Cross..."

[AGAPE]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Interesting read, good historical information.

The title is a vile slander, however, and the author in a not so subtle way chooses and relates anecdotes designed to paint Apostolics as uneducated, overly emotional bumpkins.

Obviously the work of a bitter apostate, but I do appreciate the recording of some history that some are unaware of.

right!