I may be in the minority but I have a problem believing that alcoholism is a disease. One chooses to to drink and most everyone knows all the problems associated with alcohol. One does not choose to have cancer and other diseases. My ex husband is an alcoholic. He was a very nice person until he would take the first drink then he morphed into Satan's brother! He chooses to drink knowing the consequences. I would never ride with him while he was drinking and prayed that there would be no accident. It is nearly impossible to take the car keys away from someone drinking.
I think most of the posts did say the same about it not being a disease....so I think your part of the majority...I think its social liberals that want to make every weakness a disease....
I don't think there is anyone who has driven drunk and killed who spent 40 years in prison. The man who killed my uncle spent very little time behind bars.
Many are paroled.
This is part of the article in the Toledo Blade. I realize that because he could get 40 years, it doesn't mean he necessarily will. But I think most people are hoping he gets the book thrown at him. Honestly, I tend to agree with them. I want to be forgiving, but on the other hand, maybe it's ok to not forgive until he's asked for it???
"Article published Thursday, January 3, 2008
I-280 TRAGEDY Dad who survived wrong-way crash inspects van, seeks closure
Driver in deadly wreck has bond set at $1.25M, could face maximum 40 years in prison
By LAREN WEBER
BLADE STAFF WRITER
One of the first things Danny Griffin did yesterday after he was released from the hospital was to visit what remains of the van he was driving Sunday night when his wife and four of his children were killed.
Inside was one of Sydney Griffin's dolls, some purses his other daughters liked to play with, a teddy bear, and a few photos.
Mr. Griffin, who broke down at one point, said he was seeking closure.
"They're hurting really bad," said Toledo police Sgt. Richard Murphy, who was with Mr. Griffin and his family yesterday at the North Toledo impound lot where the van was taken after the deadly crash.
The Adrian, Mich., man accused of crashing a pickup nearly head-on into the Griffins' van while driving the wrong way on I-280 was arraigned yesterday in Toledo Municipal Court on five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide.
According to court records, Michael Gagnon had a blood-alcohol level of 0.254 percent — more than three times the 0.08 percent legal limit for driving in Ohio — at the time of the accident.
The 24-year-old said little in court yesterday. Judge Michael Goulding set his bond at $1.25 million. Several of Mr. Gagnon's relatives, including his parents, filled the first two rows of the courtroom; two females cried as they left yesterday. Mr. Gagnon's family declined to comment after the hearing.
Killed in the collision were Bethany Griffin, 36, Jordan Griffin, 10, Lacie Burkman, 7, Haley Burkman, 10, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks old. Beau Burkman was injured in the crash and released from St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center Monday; Sydney remained there in serious condition last night.
The Griffins were on their way home to Maryland after visiting relatives in Michigan when the crash occurred about 11 p.m. Sunday.
Lucas County Prosecutor Julia Bates said she met with Mr. Griffin after the arraignment to discuss the case, but she declined to divulge details. Rick Sanders, an attorney speaking on behalf of the Gagnons, said they are understandably upset and are praying for the Griffin family.
"They're pretty distraught," he said. "[Mr. Gagnon] was distraught as well, probably over his own situation and the situation of all the people that suffered."
If convicted, Mr. Gagnon could be sentenced to a maximum of 40 years in prison."
__________________
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! !
This is part of the article in the Toledo Blade. I realize that because he could get 40 years, it doesn't mean he necessarily will. But I think most people are hoping he gets the book thrown at him. Honestly, I tend to agree with them. I want to be forgiving, but on the other hand, maybe it's ok to not forgive until he's asked for it???
"Article published Thursday, January 3, 2008
I-280 TRAGEDY Dad who survived wrong-way crash inspects van, seeks closure
Driver in deadly wreck has bond set at $1.25M, could face maximum 40 years in prison
By LAREN WEBER
BLADE STAFF WRITER
One of the first things Danny Griffin did yesterday after he was released from the hospital was to visit what remains of the van he was driving Sunday night when his wife and four of his children were killed.
Inside was one of Sydney Griffin's dolls, some purses his other daughters liked to play with, a teddy bear, and a few photos.
Mr. Griffin, who broke down at one point, said he was seeking closure.
"They're hurting really bad," said Toledo police Sgt. Richard Murphy, who was with Mr. Griffin and his family yesterday at the North Toledo impound lot where the van was taken after the deadly crash.
The Adrian, Mich., man accused of crashing a pickup nearly head-on into the Griffins' van while driving the wrong way on I-280 was arraigned yesterday in Toledo Municipal Court on five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide.
According to court records, Michael Gagnon had a blood-alcohol level of 0.254 percent — more than three times the 0.08 percent legal limit for driving in Ohio — at the time of the accident.
The 24-year-old said little in court yesterday. Judge Michael Goulding set his bond at $1.25 million. Several of Mr. Gagnon's relatives, including his parents, filled the first two rows of the courtroom; two females cried as they left yesterday. Mr. Gagnon's family declined to comment after the hearing.
Killed in the collision were Bethany Griffin, 36, Jordan Griffin, 10, Lacie Burkman, 7, Haley Burkman, 10, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks old. Beau Burkman was injured in the crash and released from St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center Monday; Sydney remained there in serious condition last night.
The Griffins were on their way home to Maryland after visiting relatives in Michigan when the crash occurred about 11 p.m. Sunday.
Lucas County Prosecutor Julia Bates said she met with Mr. Griffin after the arraignment to discuss the case, but she declined to divulge details. Rick Sanders, an attorney speaking on behalf of the Gagnons, said they are understandably upset and are praying for the Griffin family.
"They're pretty distraught," he said. "[Mr. Gagnon] was distraught as well, probably over his own situation and the situation of all the people that suffered."
If convicted, Mr. Gagnon could be sentenced to a maximum of 40 years in prison."
That poor man. I know if I were standing in his shoes I'd be wanting that guy to get the full 40 years.
But really, the man who hit them is 24, and he's hopefully very broken up over what he's done. What he needs is to face the music, take whatever punishment is given without complaint and allow himself to be rehabilitated...
If someone who kills someone drinking, ever picks up a bottle again they should be put behind bars forever. I've always had a hard time forgiving seventy times seven. I don't know how our Lord is so kind to us. What I've found though, he forgives us, but he doesn't always remove the consequences of our sin. Like the one who commits adultery and loses his wife and children... God may forgive and restore him but he may not get his family back.
If he's normal, he'll never quite get over what he's done. And that will be punishment for him long after he's done his time.
Seldom is there a winner in these horrible things.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
If it ws my family member who had killed these 5 people, I would have been falling all over myself trying to convey how awful I felt about what they had done and how very sorry I was.
It's sad that we have not heard that from the man who did it, nor from any of his family.
I have to admit that that fact disturbs me terribly.
__________________
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! !
My uncle was killed by a drunk driver... he chose to get in with him, so I don't hold the man completely responsible for his death. My uncle should never have drove with him.
That said, Alcoholism is not a disease. It's an addiction, a powerful one, but it's not a disease. The Bible never says, be not sick with cancer.. but it does say be not drunken with wine...
I think I'm with Ferd on this one, it is a disease, but across the board it is complex. There are those who have a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism. This is when you could say it's a disease.
However, every human being is effected by alcohol in a negative fashion. Seeking those negative effects is a sin. Getting behind the wheel of a car having 3 times the legal limit is criminal.
I almost lost my wife and children to a drunk several years ago. The drunk spent less time in jail than my wife spent in the hospital. If I had beaten my own family and caused those kinds of injuries I would deservedly get at least a decade behind bars. This guy staggers down the road and assaults my family and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.
A word of advice: if you are the victim of a drunk who has no insurance- sue your own insurance company. That whole affair cost us $1000's of dollars. All of the medical was paid okay- but we lost money on the settlement on the car and really had to scrape to get money to buy a new one. I mistakenly thought I would take the "high road" and not sue for damages. Dumb move.
I think I'm with Ferd on this one, it is a disease, but across the board it is complex. There are those who have a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism. This is when you could say it's a disease.
However, every human being is effected by alcohol in a negative fashion. Seeking those negative effects is a sin. Getting behind the wheel of a car having 3 times the legal limit is criminal.
I almost lost my wife and children to a drunk several years ago. The drunk spent less time in jail than my wife spent in the hospital. If I had beaten my own family and caused those kinds of injuries I would deservedly get at least a decade behind bars. This guy staggers down the road and assaults my family and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.
A word of advice: if you are the victim of a drunk who has no insurance- sue your own insurance company. That whole affair cost us $1000's of dollars. All of the medical was paid okay- but we lost money on the settlement on the car and really had to scrape to get money to buy a new one. I mistakenly thought I would take the "high road" and not sue for damages. Dumb move.
The justice system in Canada is pretty crazy as well.
I pray none of us on the forum ever have need to use your advice.
I still don't agree that drunkeness is a disease.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Maybe it is quibbling to some extent. But we can marshall state and federal resources to combat a "disease," whereas fighting sin we'd be on our own. Given the prevalence of alcoholism, we could use all the help we can get.
Maybe it is quibbling to some extent. But we can marshall state and federal resources to combat a "disease," whereas fighting sin we'd be on our own. Given the prevalence of alcoholism, we could use all the help we can get.
I'm not sold, but either way, the bottom line for me would be they don't get off from doing their time because of the disease theory.
You're right... I'm glad there are programs to help combat this.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
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