Apology to World

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

There are many other references to One God in the Quran my friend. As there are in the Bible

Is the Muslim Sun god one of them?

In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars such as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah! (Islam, p. 7).

The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to other titles that could be given to him.

Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.

The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities.

"Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Al-lah" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:61)".


The symbol of the worship of the moon god in Arabian culture and elsewhere throughout the Middle East was the crescent moon.

Archaeologists have dug up numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on top of the head of the deity to symbolize the worship of the moon god. In the same fashion as the sun is pictured above the Egyptian deity.

While the moon was generally worshiped as a female deity in the Ancient Near East, the Arabs viewed it as a male deity.

The Gods of the Quraysh
The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah.

The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah.

The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god.

Praying Toward Mecca
An Allah idol was set up at the Kebah along with all the other idols. The pagans prayed toward Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed.

It only made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and then pray. Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed toward Mecca.

Islam worships idols and false gods. It is a little sticky for you to admit. Bowing toward mecca is pure idolatry and polytheism.

You really don't want to discuss Islam with me. I have far too many sources and too much access to the false religion. My family had built it's own Christian non church affiliated mission to the Muslim world before you were born.
Put on a religious face. Islam is man made religion by an illiterate vagabond called Mohammad.

[coadie]

Muslim scholar and statesman Ali Dashti gives the following list of the women in Muhammad's life:

1. Khadija 12. Hend
2. Sawda 13. Asma (of Saba)
3. Aesha 14. Zaynab (of Khozayma)
4. Omm Salama 15. Habla
5. Halsa 16. Asma (of Noman)
6. Zaynab (of Jahsh) 17. Mary (the Christian)
7. Jowayriyi 18. Rayhana
8. Omm Habiba 19. Omm Sharik
9. Safiya 20. Maymuna
10. Maymuna (of Hareth) 21. Zaynab (a third one)
11. Fatema 22. Khawla

Several observations need to be given about the above list:

The first 16 women were wives. Numbers 17 and 18 were slaves or concubines.

They are all slaves or the western word is chattel property

The last four women were neither wives or slaves but devout Muslim women who "gave" themselves to satisfy Muhammad's sexual desires.

Zaynab of Jahsh was originally Muhammad's adopted son Zaid's wife. The fact that Muhammad took her for himself has been problematic to many people, Muslims included. (God does not break His Own Word and He never changes His mind. Now read Sura 33:36-38).

(The vindicated prophet Moses taught under the Old Testament, that a minister could only marry a virgin or the widow of a minister (Leviticus 21:13-15). The vindicated prophet Jesus taught under the New Testament that an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher can marry only a virgin in the faith -- because he is a type of Christ Who is uniting only with virgins to the Word.

Every prophet from Adam taught that any woman who has more than one living husband is an adulteress, and her subsequent husband is in adultery with her first husband as polygamy was legal only for the man -- Genesis 3:16; Romans 7:1-3).

Aesha was only eight or nine years old when Muhammad took her to his bed. According to Hadith, she was still playing with her dolls. This facet of Muhammad's sexual appetite is particularly distressing to Westerners.

While in Islamic countries an eight-or-nine-year-old girl can be given in marriage to an adult male, in the West, most people would shudder to think of an eight-or-nine-year-old girl being given in marriage to anyone. (Although it is condoned by the Jew's Talmud).

This aspect of Muhammad's personal life is something that many scholars pass over once again because they do not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims. Yet, history cannot be rewritten to avoid confronting the facts that Muhammad had unnatural desires for little girls.

Finally, Mary, the Coptic Christian, refused to marry Muhammad because she would not renounce Christianity and embrace Islam. She bravely chose to remain a slave rather than convert.

The documentation for all the women in Muhammad's harem is so vast and has been presented so many times by able scholars that only those who use circular reasoning can object to it.

Islam is a sex cult. Women are property. The promise of 70 virgins tells us 70 women will be punished by being forced into sexual bondage with one man.

If Islam says marriage is sacred, why will Muslim males be "rewarded" with a non sacred reward? Open your eyes.

[Walks_in_islam]

Your answer

Originally Posted by coadie

Is the Muslim Sun god one of them?

The sun god is not a god of Islam. Since you know so much about Islam then you know that:

1. The sun god idol (Hubal) was torn down from the Kabaa and destroyed by Mohammed and his followers
2. There are only (3) times that prayer is forbidden in Islam. While the sun is rising, while the sun is setting, and while the sun is directly overhead. This is to ensure for all time that Muslims do not even pray at the same time that the worshippers of the sun god used to pray.

The purpose of this is to separate Muslims from those who worshipped the sun at that time.

In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars such as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah! (Islam, p. 7).

Nice try. In Aramaic, the tongue of Jesus, the name for God was Alaha. In Hebrew, it is Alah, Elah, or Eloh, or Elohim. Jesus prayed "Eli, Eli" from his cross. Allah is the name for God used by Muslims and comes from these root words.

Now, who do you pray to? Assuming you pray to the saviour who has not come yet (as there certainly is and has never been peace on earth) the proper name for the Savior is Yahweh. Not you though. You do not pray to Yahweh. No. Yahweh has been renamed to Jesus which comes from the Greek name "Iesous/IHSOUS" and Latin "Iesus." "Iesous" is adapted from the name of the Greek goddess of healing "Iesos/Iaso," the daughter of Apollo, the Sun-deity. This goddess was linked to the Egyptian "Isis" who had a son named "Isu." During the era of Roman Emperors, there were numerous worshippers of "Isis." Many converted to Constantine's religion that mixed paganism with the Messianic faith that eventually became the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church continues to use the sunburst emblem known as the "Eucharist" which to this day contains the Greek letters "IHS" for "IHSOUS." Further research reveals that the name "Jesus" is also linked to the Greek Sun-god "Zeus" who was the Greek interpretation of the Egyptian Sun-god.

The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to other titles that could be given to him.

Alaha, Alah, Elah, or Eloh, or Elohim - the root words for "One who is to be worshipped" have been used to refer to God since the time of Abraham and before.

Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.

A history of pagan practices, though fascinating, has no bearing on the specific teachings on the Quran.

The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities.

Sez the Quran:

O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him

AND

As for the idols they set up beside GOD, they do not create anything; they themselves were created.

AND

Your god is one god.

AND

We have sent a messenger to every community, saying, "You shall worship GOD, and avoid idolatry." Subsequently, some were guided by GOD, while others were committed to straying. Roam the earth and note the consequences for the rejectors.

No matter how hard you try to guide them, GOD does not guide the ones He had committed to straying. Thus, no one can help them

And it goes on and on....I guess we probably agree on the ends for those who believe they can share God with anyone or anything else.

"Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Al-lah" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:61)".

The symbol of the worship of the moon god in Arabian culture and elsewhere throughout the Middle East was the crescent moon.

Archaeologists have dug up numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on top of the head of the deity to symbolize the worship of the moon god. In the same fashion as the sun is pictured above the Egyptian deity.

While the moon was generally worshiped as a female deity in the Ancient Near East, the Arabs viewed it as a male deity.

The Gods of the Quraysh
The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah.

The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah.

We must see the same websites lol......does not say much else about your "sources". What you say and what the Quran says and Islam teaches are opposites. SO...find passages from the Quran (any) or teachings of Mohammed (any) - I will help you, they are called "hadiths" and instead of your websites find any source of any real (not made up) teaching of Islam that shows what you are saying is true.

The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god.

Praying Toward Mecca
An Allah idol was set up at the Kebah along with all the other idols. The pagans prayed toward Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed.

There are no idols at the Kabaa. There WERE over 120 of them and they were systematically torn down

It only made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and then pray. Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed toward Mecca.

Did you find a picture of that idol yet? lol

Islam worships idols and false gods. It is a little sticky for you to admit. Bowing toward mecca is pure idolatry and polytheism.

Renaming your "saviour" after a greek god then praying to and baptizing yourselves in the name of that greek god is pure idolatry and polytheism my friend.

You really don't want to discuss Islam with me. I have far too many sources and too much access to the false religion.

I do not mind discussing Islam with you at all. So far your internet sources are easily found by cutting and pasting a phrase from them and hitting "google it". lol. My 15-yr-old daughter can find your "many sources".

My family had built it's own Christian non church affiliated mission to the Muslim world before you were born.

What your family does has nothing to do with you. You are not much. Here are come cuts and pastes for you to ponder

Put on a religious face. Islam is man made religion by an illiterate vagabond called Mohammad.

Christianity is a man made religion created by a bunch of bigoted priests who freely re-worded texts (making LOTS of errors and discrepencies by the way) and freely sprinkled bits and pieces of their pagan practices throughout the religion.

For example:

Re-wording God's messengers:

Angel/Angels from Greek Word "Angelos" meaning "messenger/messengers. Angelos was the name of a Greek god associated with Sun-worship BUT
Malakh/Malakhim from Hebrew word meaning "messenger/messengers;" has no association with Sun-worship.

OH, here's a great one - nice replacement for the biblical sabbath

Sunday was the day set aside in the Mithra (Roman) cult as its official day to assemble together to worship its Sun-deity. Roman Emperor Constantine legislated Sun-day as a day of rest dedicated to the Greek and Roman Sun-god, Helios. Constantine worshipped "Christos Helios" which means "Christ-The-True-Sun." BUT Shabbat/Sabbath is the Hebrew word pertaining to Yahweh's 7th day of rest

"Well praise the....."

Lord comes from the old English spelling of "Lard" which comes from "Lar/Larth Lares," Estruscan and Roman deities associated with Sun-worship

"On this rock I will build my....."

Church comes from the Anglo-Saxon root word "circe," and stems from the Greek name of the goddess "Circe," the daughter of "Helios," the Roman Sun-god adopted from Greek mythology. Linked to this goddess in Celtic pagan worship is the name "Kirce." From her name comes the word "kirch" which pertained to the building dedicated to pagan Celtic worship and rituals. The Greek word "kuriakon" was used for the building or "house of Kurios

OH another good one - nice source for your "christian" faith:

Christ/Christian come from the Greek word "Christos" meaning "anointed/anointed one," and was used in the pagan Greek and Roman religions to give reference to their Sun-god, "Helios." Roman Emperor Constantine worshipped "Christos Helios" which means "Christ-The-True-Sun." Christos originates from the Greek word "Chrestos" which means "good" and alludes to the Greek/Roman god "Chrestos." "Chrestos" can be seen on a Mithras (Roman cult) relief in the Vatican. "Chrestos" as reverenced by Greeks and Romans was none other than "Osiris," a Sun-diety of Egypt

All of these and more are referenced from christian writings encouraging christians to stop following pagan practices and using pagan terms. Do come back sometime there is lots more.

[Walks_in_islam]

What you are saying is true and these actions specifically violate the teachings of Islam itself.

It is forbidden to marry a girl who has not become a young woman
It is forbidden to marry within your family
It is forbidden to marry someone against their will

Originally Posted by coadie

Muslim scholar and statesman Ali Dashti gives the following list of the women in Muhammad's life:

1. Khadija 12. Hend
2. Sawda 13. Asma (of Saba)
3. Aesha 14. Zaynab (of Khozayma)
4. Omm Salama 15. Habla
5. Halsa 16. Asma (of Noman)
6. Zaynab (of Jahsh) 17. Mary (the Christian)
7. Jowayriyi 18. Rayhana
8. Omm Habiba 19. Omm Sharik
9. Safiya 20. Maymuna
10. Maymuna (of Hareth) 21. Zaynab (a third one)
11. Fatema 22. Khawla

Several observations need to be given about the above list:

The first 16 women were wives. Numbers 17 and 18 were slaves or concubines.

The last four women were neither wives or slaves but devout Muslim women who "gave" themselves to satisfy Muhammad's sexual desires.

Zaynab of Jahsh was originally Muhammad's adopted son Zaid's wife. The fact that Muhammad took her for himself has been problematic to many people, Muslims included. (God does not break His Own Word and He never changes His mind. Now read Sura 33:36-38).

(The vindicated prophet Moses taught under the Old Testament, that a minister could only marry a virgin or the widow of a minister (Leviticus 21:13-15). The vindicated prophet Jesus taught under the New Testament that an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher can marry only a virgin in the faith -- because he is a type of Christ Who is uniting only with virgins to the Word.

Every prophet from Adam taught that any woman who has more than one living husband is an adulteress, and her subsequent husband is in adultery with her first husband as polygamy was legal only for the man -- Genesis 3:16; Romans 7:1-3).

Aesha was only eight or nine years old when Muhammad took her to his bed. According to Hadith, she was still playing with her dolls. This facet of Muhammad's sexual appetite is particularly distressing to Westerners.

While in Islamic countries an eight-or-nine-year-old girl can be given in marriage to an adult male, in the West, most people would shudder to think of an eight-or-nine-year-old girl being given in marriage to anyone. (Although it is condoned by the Jew's Talmud).

This aspect of Muhammad's personal life is something that many scholars pass over once again because they do not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims. Yet, history cannot be rewritten to avoid confronting the facts that Muhammad had unnatural desires for little girls.

Finally, Mary, the Coptic Christian, refused to marry Muhammad because she would not renounce Christianity and embrace Islam. She bravely chose to remain a slave rather than convert.

The documentation for all the women in Muhammad's harem is so vast and has been presented so many times by able scholars that only those who use circular reasoning can object to it.

Islam is a sex cult. Women are property. The promise of 70 virgins tells us 70 women will be punished by being forced into sexual bondage with one man.

If Islam says marriage is sacred, why will Muslim males be "rewarded" with a non sacred reward? Open your eyes.

Perhaps it is you who should not be discussing the Bible with me. A few examples. Lot, a messenger of God, got drunk and had sex with his daughters. Then there is that story of Judah and his daughter-in-law (I thought she was a harlot!!) David, another messenger of God, took another man's wife and sent her husband to be killed. Solomon, vererated in the Bible as blessed by God with wisdom, had hundreds of wives and concubines. Jacob worked for a wife, was given her sister, then took her sister as a wife as well. There are so many more. Even so, the words, actions, and deeds of these children of God are referenced today in both the Bible and the Quran. If you believe that God cannot use those with faults for His work and to spread His message start by tearing out the words of those with faults or those who have sinned from your own book. Then start on mine.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

What you are saying is true and these actions specifically violate the teachings of Islam itself.

It is forbidden to marry a girl who has not become a young woman
It is forbidden to marry within your family
It is forbidden to marry someone against their will

So you admit Mohammad violated all of the above.


Zaynab of Jahsh was originally Muhammad's adopted son Zaid's wife. The fact that Muhammad took her for himself has been problematic to many people, Muslims included. (God does not break His Own Word and He never changes His mind. Now read Sura 33:36-38).


Aesha was only eight or nine years old when Muhammad took her to his bed.

And your Lot junk?
His daughters got him drunk.

He was delivered because of Abrahams prayers. No way was he dealing with his own relationship with Jehovah.
Glad you brought this up. Abraham has miracles but for some reason you can't explain why the religion of the One Ishmael of the bondwoman has no miracles in the Quran.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

My math skills need no honing. The article, which listed a series of random and senseless drunk driving fatalities, specified "victims" as extended family members. I and nearly everyone I know has had a family member either injured or killed in such an accident. Are you claiming now that this is uncommon or that it is statistically less common than the injustices (which are the exception, not the rule) that happen under the regime here? I will get you some more numbers then.

So your booklet says it is both right and wrong to drink alcohol.
The Quran is junk if it contradicts itself
can't have it both ways. I oppose booze but it seems you are foolin me if you claim the quran does

Sura 16:67, 2:219 & 4:43 says it is all right to drink wine, but it is forbidden in Sura 5:92. Sura 19:33 & 3:55 indicates Jesus died, but Sura 4:157-158 indicates he did not die. Sura 42:51-52 claims no man can talk directly with God, but must have a mediator, but Sura 7:143 & 4:164 says Moses talked directly with God.

Additional note, The Qu'ran says if any part of the Quran is false the total book is a false book. Looks easy to demonstrate. Demonstrate it with internal contradictions.

Since Mohammad was illiterate, how can you prove to me that the scribe wrote what the "angel Gabriel allegedly told Mohammad"?
You really can't answer because it is blasphemy for you to even write translated verses. All the Koran is not to be translated.
You don't want to debate me because using your own scripture, you can only get yourself in a corner you can't get out of.

Why was Mohammad illiterate? People with determination and brains have been known to teach themselves to read.

[coadie]

Nice try. In Aramaic, the tongue of Jesus, the name for God was Alaha. In Hebrew, it is Alah, Elah, or Eloh, or Elohim. Jesus prayed "Eli, Eli" from his cross. Allah is the name for God used by Muslims and comes from these root words.

The totally different objectives or missions of Islam and Judaism raise the question whether these religions or groupings can be controlled by the same God. How can one group of followers of a god have as its aim the destruction of another group of followers of the same god as is the case with Muslims wanting to destroy Jews and the Jewish state? The Islamic Jihad slogan, "First (we'll kill) the Saturday people (Jews) and then the Sunday people (Christians, Crusaders)," is only too well known and experienced - in Islamic terrorism.

Jesus came not to kill but to bring life. The allah of Islam is not a saving god nor a life giver.

Adonai
The Alpha and Omega
Elohim
Ancient of Days

El-Shaddai
Immanuel
Jehovah-Nissi

Jehovah-Jireh
Jehovah-Rohi
Jehovah-Rophe

Jehovah-Tsidkenu
Jehovah-M'Kaddesh
Jehovah-Shammah

Jehovah-Shalom
The Lamb of God
Messiah

Prince of Peace
Saviour
Son of God

Islam stands for a god of submission.

[Walks_in_islam]

You are right. A book that contains contradictions is junk. Especially if it contains contradictions throughout.......

Nowhere in the Quran or in the teachings of Islam does it say it is acceptable to drink alcohol.

To illustrate with your "examples":

Surah 16:67 "and from the fruit of the date-palm and the vine, you get out wholesome drink and food....." Doesn't mention, refer to, or address alcohol in any way

Surah 2:219 "When they ask you concerning wine and gambling, say 'in them is great sin, and profit for some, but the sin is greater than the profit'" Doesn't sound like this says alcohol is acceptable - sounds to me like it says it is a sin. Along with gambling.

Surah 4:43 says "Oh you who believe - do not approach prayer with a foggy mind..." and mentions alcohol nowhere either in this Surah or any of the adjoining verses.

So your examples kind of fall flat.

The rest of your examples fall flat as well. A good idea is not to try to pull a "praxeus" but to actually type the physical words rather than mis-state and re-interpret them. Mis-statement appears to be the "pentecostal way" to make a point or send a message. You must be pentecostal since you are "truth-deficient".

Originally Posted by coadie

So your booklet says it is both right and wrong to drink alcohol.
The Quran is junk if it contradicts itself
can't have it both ways. I oppose booze but it seems you are foolin me if you claim the quran does

Sura 16:67, 2:219 & 4:43 says it is all right to drink wine, but it is forbidden in Sura 5:92. Sura 19:33 & 3:55 indicates Jesus died, but Sura 4:157-158 indicates he did not die. Sura 42:51-52 claims no man can talk directly with God, but must have a mediator, but Sura 7:143 & 4:164 says Moses talked directly with God.

Additional note, The Qu'ran says if any part of the Quran is false the total book is a false book. Looks easy to demonstrate. Demonstrate it with internal contradictions.

NOW: I have a better idea. Let's hold YOUR book up to the light for a bit with specific references then YOU explain how "holy scripture" can be so full of obvious discrepencies. You can add to these (2) different lists of apostles and different descriptions of the Last Supper of Jesus where he supposedly broke bread etc but this inspiring event was completely missed in the Gospel of John:

YOU can also find the chapter and verses. I know where they are.

David was incited to count the fighting men of Isreal. In 2nd Samuel, God incited him. In I Chronicles, Satan incited him. When they were counted, 2nd Samual says 800,000 and I Chronicles says 1.1 MM.
God threatens David with 7 years of famine in 2nd Samuel, 3 years of famine in I Chronicles.
Ahaziah was 22 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings. He was 42 in 2nd Chronicles.
Jehoiachin was 18 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings, 8 when he began his rule in 2nd Chronicles
David's "chief of mighty men" killed 800 men at one time in 2nd Samuel and 300 men at one time in I Chronicles
David carried the Ark into Jerusalem AFTER defeating the Philistines in 2nd Samuel. Before defeating them in Chronicles 13/14
David captured 1700 horsemen after defeating the King of Zobah in 2nd Samuel, 7000 in I Chronicles.
Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses in I Kings. 4000 stalls in 2nd Chronicles.
During King Asa's reign Baasha King of Isreal died in the 26th year in I Kings. He was still alive in the 36th year in I chronicles.
Solomon appointed 3600 overseers to build the temple in 2nd chronicles. 3300 in I Kings.
Solomon built a facility containing 2000 baths in I kings. It had 3000 in 2nd chronicles.
Isrealites freed from Babylonian captivity:
Children of Pahrath-Moab:
2812 Ezra. 2818 Nehemiah
Children of Azgad:
1222 Ezra. 2333 Nehemiah
And so on. The total numbers agree in each book as 42,360, but if you add each individual column from each book Ezra adds to 29,818 and Nehemiah adds to 31,089
There were 200 singers in the assembly in Ezra and 245 in the assembly in Nehemiah.
King Abijah's mother's name was Michaiah, daughter of Uriel in one chapter of 2nd chronicles and Maachah daughter of Absalom in another chapter. Absalom however had only one daughter mentioned whose name was Tamar in 2nd Samuel.
Joshua and the Isrealites captured Jerusalem in Joshua 10 and did not capture it in Joshua 15.
Father of Joseph, husband of Mary was Jacob in Matthew and Heli in Luke
Jesus descended from Solomon in Matthew and from Nathan in Luke
The father of Shealtiel was Jechoniah in Matthew and Neri in Luke
Abiud son of Zerubbabel was the anscestor of Jesus in Matthew and Rhesa son of Zerubbabel in Luke. Neither are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel in the list in I Chronicles.
Father of Uzziah was Joram in Matthew and Amaziah in 2nd Chronicles
Father of Jechoniah was Josiah in Matthew and Jeholakim in I Chronicles
The angel stated that Jesus would inherit the throne of David in Luke. But Matthew says he is a descendent of Jehoiakim and I Chronicles says "and Jehoiaikim was cursed by god so that none of his descendents can sit upon David's throne" Oops.
Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt in Mark and Luke and a colt/donkey in Matthew
Simon Peter found out that Jesus was Christ from a heavenly revelation in Matthew, but his brother Andrew told him in John.
Jesus met Simon and Andrew by the Sea of Galilee in Matthew and on the banks of the Jordan in John
Jairus' daughter was dead when he met Jesus in Matthew but not dead / at the point of death in Mark
The disciples were allowed to keep a staff on their journeys in Mark. They were not allowed in Matthew and Luke
Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist in Matthew and Mark. He did not in Luke.
John the Baptist recognized Jesus in John. He did not recognize him in Matthew.
Jesus cleansed the temple the day he entered Jerusalem in Matthew. He spent the night in Bethany and cleansed it the next day in Mark
Judas kissed Jesus in Matthew. He did not in John
The curtain in the temple was rent after Jesus died in Matthew and Mark. but rent before Jesus died in Luke.
Both thieves mocked Jesus in Mark. One mocked, one defended in Luke
Jesus ascended to paradise on the day of crucifixion in Luke. He said to Mary he has not yet ascended (two days later) in John
The apostle Paul and companions on the road to Damascus:
All heard the voice in Acts 9. Not all heard the voice in Acts 22
The companions fell to the ground in Acts 26. They did not in Acts 9
The voice spelled out Paul's duties in Acts 26. The voice told him to go to Damascus in Acts 9.

Since Mohammad was illiterate, how can you prove to me that the scribe wrote what the "angel Gabriel allegedly told Mohammad"?

See above. You can't exactly describe the events that took place from before the cricifixion to the "formation of the church" even though your entire way of life is based on them. Why don't you start by telling me which apostle was "inspired" and which of the other (3) who wrote these identical stories were posing?

You really can't answer because it is blasphemy for you to even write translated verses. All the Koran is not to be translated.

I just wrote some down for you. Mainly because you flat mis-represented what they actually said. I will write some more if you need to be brought back to honesty.

You don't want to debate me because using your own scripture, you can only get yourself in a corner you can't get out of.

I am doing fine. As my texts are kind of straightforward and dry I think I can do pretty well using yours lol. So far you haven't made a valid point yet other than your fake "discrepencies".

Why was Mohammad illiterate? People with determination and brains have been known to teach themselves to read.

OH, like your nephew? cousin? who manufactured his own computer?

[coadie]

There are two schools of thought about who actually wrote the Koran and how it was assembled because it is a know fact that Muhammad was so illiterate that he could not read or write. First, the Muslim leaders tell the people that Muhammad wrote the Koran and it was a miracle because Muhammad was illiterate in spite of the fact that Muhammad himself spoke against miracles and said he could not and did not do any miracles, therefore, calling Muhammad a liar.

It is also common sense that since Muhammad confesses, in the Koran, to have been a bandit raiding caravans and pillaging cities and villages regularly taking slaves, he would have captured many such scribes and would have had his choice of scribes to use for writing the Koran. Therefore, it is only common sense that Muhammad would have written the Koran himself by dictating it to a scribe instead of leaving a bunch of notes he couldn't have written or performing some miracle he denounced himself. This is such an obvious no brainer that it causes me to question the intelligence of the academics who believe the Koran was written by a caliph from notes Muhammad could not have written.

So did he write it? As sleazy as the bandito Mohammad was, how could he trust that what the scribes wrote is what he told them to write?

I bet it bothers you a lot trying to defend an illiterate man with me.

Mohammad's deal with girls and his raids and pillaging tell us what he is and what his follower look up to.

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran7.html

Most likely he enslaved Jewish scribes. They could share a working knowledge of the torah. Since Mohammad, PBUH was reading impared.

[Walks_in_islam]

This is what I would call reading impaired and also a classic example of both ignorance and illiteracy:

Quran: Surah 2:219 "When they ask you concerning wine and gambling, say 'in them is great sin, and profit for some, but the sin is greater than the profit'"

Coadie: Sura 2:219 says it is all right to drink wine

Your silence on the specifically listed examples of direct discrepencies in the words of the bible says much. I guess you are silent since the list comes from the actual written words. (so unlike your made-up examples from the Quran)

Which Muslim leaders have ever said or implied that the Quran was written by Mohammed? Oh, you don't have a specific example - just a general reference to "muslim leaders"? The answer to that question can wait along with any comment you have on the biblical discrepency issues. After you finish with those discrepencies I have some more for you to ponder while YOU figure out who wrote and re-wrote and removed/added words to YOUR book.

I know this. You can set the two books side-by-side and the paths to paradise / paths to punishment are parallel from the beginning of time when mankind was created, until the time of the apostle Paul / creation of the modern "church" at which point the paths diverge. Including the teachings of Jesus who said he did not come to change the law but fulfill it a few years before Paul re-defined the law entirely. I also know this. There is more similarity between Islam and the teachings of the bible than there is between the modern church and the teachings of the bible. Where a book comes from is less important than the contents so a better approach for you might be to pick the contents apart (try to do a better job than you have done above)

Originally Posted by coadie

There are two schools of thought about who actually wrote the Koran and how it was assembled because it is a know fact that Muhammad was so illiterate that he could not read or write. First, the Muslim leaders tell the people that Muhammad wrote the Koran and it was a miracle because Muhammad was illiterate in spite of the fact that Muhammad himself spoke against miracles and said he could not and did not do any miracles, therefore, calling Muhammad a liar.

It is also common sense that since Muhammad confesses, in the Koran, to have been a bandit raiding caravans and pillaging cities and villages regularly taking slaves, he would have captured many such scribes and would have had his choice of scribes to use for writing the Koran. Therefore, it is only common sense that Muhammad would have written the Koran himself by dictating it to a scribe instead of leaving a bunch of notes he couldn't have written or performing some miracle he denounced himself. This is such an obvious no brainer that it causes me to question the intelligence of the academics who believe the Koran was written by a caliph from notes Muhammad could not have written.

So did he write it? As sleazy as the bandito Mohammad was, how could he trust that what the scribes wrote is what he told them to write?

I bet it bothers you a lot trying to defend an illiterate man with me.

Mohammad's deal with girls and his raids and pillaging tell us what he is and what his follower look up to.

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran7.html

Most likely he enslaved Jewish scribes. They could share a working knowledge of the torah. Since Mohammad, PBUH was reading impared.