Revisiting the "PANTS" Issue

[Sam]

This is a repost from a while back:

Our Old Testament except for a few verses was written in Hebrew. After the Jews were taken to Babylon and then regathered after 70 years, many had picked up the language of Bablylon and Hebrew was becoming unfamiliar. In Nehemiah chapter 8 it is recorded that the people came together to hear the Bible read. Ezra the priest stood on a high platform and read from the Scriptures. Ezra is called a cohen or priest and a Torah teacher in Neh. 8:9. Earlier verses say that Ezra opened the scroll and read. As he read the Scriptures were explained and translated so the people could understand. This was probably in the fall or October of 445 B.C. The Hebrew scriptures were explained or paraphrased in the Aramaic language which they had brought from Bablylon.

Later in the synagogues where Jews gathered, when the Scriptures were read in Hebrew they would be explained or paraphrased verse by verse in a commonly understood language. These oral explanations were called Targums or Targamim which was plural for targum or Aramaic. At first these targums were not supposed to be written down but later were. There are two targums from around the first century that are still around. One is called the Jonathan Targum and one is called the Onkelos Targum.

A parallel to this would be our modern paraphases which are meant to simplify the older unfamiliar language that was used in England in the seventeenth century and is found in our King James Bible.

Just for something interesting, here is Deuteronomy 22:5 from the Johathan Targum
"Neither fringed robes nor tephillin which are the ornaments of a man shall be upon a woman; neither shall a man shave himself so as to appear like a woman; for every one who doeth so is an abomination before the Lord thy God."

From what I understand, that would be the way a first century Jew or Christian would hear that verse read in his language at the synagogue. I don't know just how that would go over in a UPC church today which discourages facial hair on men and pants on women.

[Sam]

There is a good article on this subject at
http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/women-pants.htm

[StMark]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Mark, then why do you insist on bringing up the fact that 100 years ago, women didn't wear pants in this culture and society? If we aren't going to talk about dress styles of the past, then why is this an issue?

Let's talk about 2008. Not 1908.

HO, even in the 50s women didn't wear pants often unless they was horse backing riding or working in a factory where there was a safty issue. It is true that 90% ( or more)of women in our culture wear pants the majority of the time unless they are going to a wedding. Has this been a good change for us as a society?? I don't think so personally and the reason why is, I think it is just one small aspect that has worn down the moral fiber of our society. You cannot tell me that what a person puts on does not affect change in the spirit of the person.

[Sam]

Some years ago I was the teacher of a teen age Sunday School class at our ALJC church. One day someone asked why girls or women weren't allowed to wear pants. I said that the verse usually used for this was Deuteronomy 22:5. Someone then commented about that verse being under the law and reminded me that I had taught them that we are not under the law any more. I guess someone was listening more than I thought.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by StMark

Let's ask WHY we have adopted this. Has it helped us or hurt us? As foreverBlessed pointed out, look at our boys. they are changing. why ? because culture is changing and the lines of distinction are being blurred more and more. you cannot tell me that hollywood and culture have not brought this about long with the spirit of the last days that we are living in

I agree that culture changes but then it was changing back in Bible times also. I look at my boys every day. My boys look like, act like, and smell like boys. VERY MUCH SO. They are influenced by things. We talk about them and either the things are okay or not. We decide together and with prayer and the wisdom that God gave us. My boys do not wear their clothes saggin to the floor or skin tight hip huggers. They do not have feminine hair cuts. They do not dress like a lot of Conservatives kids but they are boys and it is known they are boys. Why do they look like and act like boys? because they have the HG and they are learning about a relationship with God. They are learning to seek out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

It still has nothing to do with dress styles. It's a heart matter.

Do you suggest that Sodom and Gomorrah were only vile because of their dress culture? Did they have Hollywood influencing them also?

No. They had bad hearts. That's the bottom line.

I'm not sure what brought about the change in Sodom but the devil has used hollywood in our times. agree? The heart doesn't just change out of nowhere. It's effected by our 5 senses, what we see, hear, taste, etc.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

I agree that culture changes but then it was changing back in Bible times also. I look at my boys every day. My boys look like, act like, and smell like boys. VERY MUCH SO. They are influenced by things. We talk about them and either the things are okay or not. We decide together and with prayer and the wisdom that God gave us. My boys do not wear their clothes saggin to the floor or skin tight hip huggers. They do not have feminine hair cuts. They do not dress like a lot of Conservatives kids but they are boys and it is known they are boys. Why do they look like and act like boys? because they have the HG and they are learning about a relationship with God. They are learning to seek out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

I'm glad to hear that for you and your family but what kind of world are we leaving behind for them to raise THEIR families in jax? surely you worry about that. It may be effecting your home directly but most of us can see and feel the shift of change in our country and world and it's happening at a much more rapid pace.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

...
Do you suggest that Sodom and Gomorrah were only vile because of their dress culture? Did they have Hollywood influencing them also?
...

What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Read Ezekiel 16:49, 50

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by StMark

Sherri , Can a Man be modest in a skirt ? would you be honest and admit that it would really be acceptable to you if the men in your church started wearing "MODEST" Dresses and the women all wore the pants ?

No, I can't say that I would be comfortable with a bunch of men in dresses, because in our culture, it's just not the norm. However, in our culture, it IS the norm for women to be in pants OR dresses. It doesn't bother me at all for women to be in pants at church; I am in pants a lot for midweek services.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by StMark

I'm glad to hear that for you and your family but what kind of world are we leaving behind for them to raise THEIR families in jax? surely you worry about that. It may be effecting your home directly but most of us can see and feel the shift of change in our country and world and it's happening at a much more rapid pace.

I worry more about the morality of things and that is going to be for them raising their children than I do about rather women weaing pants or men wearing skirts is a problem. I think one can effect the other yes but I think dress is much smaller issue than attitude and morality. We can only teach them right from wrong and help them to get an understanding of things and when we are gone hope that they can keep it going as long as possible for them and theirs. Besides if it keeps picking up the pace and gets worse maybe God will come back sooner than later and I will not have to worry about it.