Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
The initial post of this thread is what caught my attention and why I decided to respond.
I would like to know how women are being "persecuted" in the church today as I know it, have lived it, have experienced it and have pastored it --- "it" referring to the church.
Because a woman has been told she can't wear red or a hair bow or jewelry or makeup ..... this is supposed to constitute "persecution"? What a laugh!!
I know women and men today who are being persecuted for their faith in real terms. They're thrown into jails and prisons, suffer beatings, repeated raping, starvation and even death because of their faith. This is what I think of when I think of "persecution". I certainly never considered my pastor teaching me that I shouldn't cut my hair or wear shorts or pants as "persecution". I wouldn't consider the fact that woman isn't accepted for "ordination" as persecution either.
The fact is ....... God has set certain things in order. One of those things is order in regards to headship, and it was God Himself who established in the very beginning that the order is ....
God
Man
Woman
I didn't set it up. Neither did Adam. God did. And the principles of headship and order are seen throughout scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
Does this mean that women can't lead? No. Because we see example in scripture of women leading but always under God and under man.
I have no problem overall with male authority. I prefer male leadership. Does every man lead perfectly? No. Are there men who take advantage? Definitely. Are there poor male role models and is there poor male leadership? Absolutely.
But this was God's plan from the beginning - male authority and headship. Just because men violate their role and take advantage doesn't negate God's commands or His plan. We need to stick with the principles that have been established in God's Word when it comes to this issue and all others too, of course.
And in my own personal experience overall, the male leadership I've had in my own life personally -- and in the church too -- has been positive, affirming, encouraging, assuring and as God mandated it to be.
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First of all the original thread said nothing about your personal experiences. "As you know it" is not relevant to the discussion. To be Christlike, we must be empathetic and respond to need even if that pain is not part of our personal experiences. And "it" isn't referring to the first UPC.
As the body of Christ we are to help those who cannot help themselves. To do that we must be whole.
With regard to the "red bow" or "split skirts", any suggestion by any man to a woman regarding her clothing other than by her husband is crossing her boundaries. A man has no right to tell another woman what to wear. Even if its a pastor; if a woman is wearing something offensive or revealing, the pastor should speak to her husband first alone, so as not to offend or embarrass her.
She should not be made a specticle of publically or privately!!!
Too many pastors, husbands, fathers, etc. have been emotional vampires sucking the emotional health away from their wives, daughters, congregants, etc. so they can feel good about themselves and their minsitries. This is a sin and constitutes emotional and spiritual abuse.
I'm glad you have been excluded from this, but this does not negate your responsibility to make sure it doesnt' happen to anyone.
He that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
A healthy church is a church that regards women equal with men and protects all alike including children.
With regard to male authority, we are to love our wives as Christ loves the church. That means dying to her and giving our lives for her. Placing her first in all things.
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