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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #261  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:51 PM
Brother Strange
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Originally Posted by rrford View Post
Really? Last I checked I was not Divine and human. How about you?
LOL...

This discussion is now past being absurd.....

Almost silly.
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  #262  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:52 PM
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rrford rrford is offline
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In all honesty, we are probably all saying basically the same thing.

This is one of those subjects difficult to discuss via postings. In person the conversation would be quite lively and at the end of the day I think we would all be on the same page. JMO.
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  #263  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:53 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Can we say simply that Jesus chose not to sin because he had no desire to sin? Was there no internal struggle between his flesh and the Spirit that indwelt in him?
How can we say he was tempted if there was no desire? The flesh WANTS something...that is how we are tempted...because the flesh wants something

There is the will or desires of the flesh and the will or desire of the spirit.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #264  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:53 PM
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rrford rrford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange View Post
LOL...

This discussion is now past being absurd.....

Almost silly.
Hey, you of all people should appreicate that repsonse. It felt good for me to take someone else's post out of context for a change.
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  #265  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:54 PM
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rrford rrford is offline
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Originally Posted by rrford View Post
Hey, I agree. My point is that He had a human nature. It just was not the fallen human nature of sinful humanity.

He was tempted. That is a fact. Means He could have sinned. He simply chose not to? Why did He choose not to?

In my opinion, there was no desire to sin.

Do you believe that Satan actually tempted Christ? Obviously he did. So do you think Christ actually considered turning stones to bread, jumping off of the pinnacle, bowing down in worship? Do you think he actually "desired" to do any of those? Yet the Word plainly declares He was tempted. Hmmm...
Bumparoo....


For Prax and Bro. Strange to answer the questions before the thread moves beyond them.
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  #266  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:55 PM
Brother Strange
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Originally Posted by rrford View Post
I otice you avoided the questions also. I should be the one banging my head.
Prax, myself and also DA in a round about way answered your question with a unanomous voice.

Jesus was in every way made like unto his bretheren. That included the propensity to sin. He overcame through combat, struggle, through temptation with sin to become victorous over that temptation to sin by the unlimited Holy Ghost that dwelt within himself from birth.
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  #267  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:55 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Pastor Don Rogers from Milwaukee (who is Divine Flesh) sent me this Bible study. I don't believe in the divine flesh doctrine. I sent Brother Rogers an e-mail asking his permission to post this article here. He told me go ahead.

THE ESSENTIALITY OF THE WEDDING GARMENT


Math. 22:11



Did you know its possible to love Jesus with all of your heart and not be married to him? There are dozens of Christian denominations that you can choose from to fit your lifestyle of salvation. But Jesus only has one bride who he honors as his wife in the earth.


Vs-8-9- Notice Jesus is speaking to servants who will go out into the city and nations to bring people to the marriage supper of the Lamb. He is looking for servants and not religious Bible thumpers to go out and carry a cross to do the work of the Lord. Jesus said leave the Church building and go out and search for people who are not married to Jesus. A servant will always obey his master and be a soul winner. Servants do not stay in the Church to analyze everything going on in the Church. Servants are not easily offended. They don’t have time for gossip. They are involved. They carry a servants attitude. You can count on them for just about anything. Jesus tells his servants to go and find his Bride in the earth. That’s how you can always tell who the real servants are. They are discipling and involving their lives into the lives of others. They are functional Christians who can work a Job, be faithful to family, and love people by living a transparent life of integrity.
Vs. 10- The servants gathered both bad and good. They mixed amongst all kinds of people. They did not cast people into Hell or refuse to mingle and reach out to only the morally good people. They went amongst the bad and the good. They left judgment up to the King. They simply went out to announce that Jesus is holding a great wedding and they are invited.
Vs. 11- The King noticed a man who did not have on a wedding garment. In Jewish custom the groom always provides the guest with a wedding garment he chooses for them.
Vs. 12- This invited guest was called a friend. The King says you have come to this wedding insulting me and my guest. This man was speechless because he apparently knew better. He must have already heard that he was to come with a wedding garment. He offended the King.
Vs. 13-14-The King was so mad he threw this man out of the wedding. These verses are symbolic to a believer going to Hell. This is how important it is for a believer to be married to Jesus and put on the wedding garment.


But what if this is just some bodies interpretation for this scripture and all I have to do is accept Christ as my personal savior and quote the sinners prayer?


Rev. 19:7- The true Bride of Jesus Christ is not fully married to him while on earth. She is espoused to Jesus. She is betrothed to Jesus. These are Hebrew terms for their customs concerning married. In Jewish customs they do not believe in dating. When a man marries a woman he betroths her. He brings her a dowry. He brings her family gifts and monetary goods. They sign an agreement but do not have sex. After a period of time Like Joseph did with Mary they consummate the marriage with sex. She now becomes the bride for the husband. People who have sex outside of marriage have violated Gods wedding terms for marriage. They have created a perverted contract that Satan will cause emotional, and spiritual problems for that relationship after the marriage concerning sex. Notice it says the Bride hath made herself ready. What does this mean. It means people who are truly married to Jesus Christ are now getting ready to put on a new incorruptible body for the wedding provided by the groom and the King. This body is the same body Jesus had when he walked the earth. This body is called a wedding garment you and I must put on in water Baptism with the name of Jesus called over you. If you have been Baptized in the titles Father, son and the Holy Ghost you have never received the wedding garment of Jesus. You are in love with him but have never put on the name of Jesus in water Baptism. This is how the Bride made herself ready. We are espoused and betrothed to Jesus as long as we are in this corruptible body made from the dust. But when we put on the body made by the Word we become the married bride of Jesus Christ.

Vs. 8-9- The fine linen here is symbolic of the flesh of God. It identifies you as the Bride of Jesus Christ amongst many other Christian religions:



This is what some religions teach:


The Baptist religion says: Water Baptism is not essential to my salvation. This is works. We are saved by grace. And once I am saved I am sealed until the day of redemption. So I am eternally saved. But the Bible writers tells us in Gal. 3:27 that they that put on Christ have been Baptized into Christ. 1 Peter 3:21 says Baptism shall save you. Mark 16:16 says he that is Baptized shall be saved. James 2:18 says show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith with my works.

The Assemblies of God and the Church of God in Christ teaches: accept Christ as your personal savior. Quote the sinners prayer. You can have the Holy Ghost later to live an overcoming life. Speaking in tongues and water Baptism is not the sign of your salvation. Again the believer never puts on the wedding garment. They may love Jesus but never put him on. Jesus said in John 3:3-8 a man must be born again of the water and Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. This is being filled with the Spirit speaking in tongues and putting on the holy wedding garment of Jesus Christ in water Baptism. Many people come out of the water speaking with tongues. However this is not always the case. Nor does it mean your water baptism is invalid.

The Muslims say Jesus never died on the cross-They say he was just an ordinary man like you and me made from the dust. But the Bible says in John 8:23-24 Jesus is from above. 1 Cor. 15:15-45-55 says he is the last Adam from heaven. Jesus was not like you and I. Romans 8:3 says he came in the likeness of sinful flesh but he was not like you and I. If Jesus did not die than there is no wedding garment to put on because the garment is his flesh.

The Jehovah’s witness and the Mormons say Jesus was the second person of the trinity: Yet the Bible writers tells us in Is. 43:11 I even I am YHWH and I am your savior without separation of personalities or natures. Ex. 15:3 says the Lord is a man of war. YHWH is his name. Is. 42:13 says YHWH shall go forth as a mighty man. Jesus is YHWH manifested in Yahshua the messiah without a separation of persons. If you separate the nature and personalities of the Father and the Son than you never received the garment of the Father because religion says Jesus came from the inherited dust nature of Mary.

The United Pentecostal Church teaches: You do not put on Christ in water Baptism. Water Baptism has nothing to do with putting on the wedding garment of the flesh of God. They say you get Baptized for all of your sins. They say Jesus has two natures. Two wills and two personalites. But the Bible says in John 14:10-12 the words Jesus spoke came from the Father himself. Is. 53:1-13 tells us the feelings and sufferings of Jesus all belong to the Father himself. Jesus could never inherit a human dust nature from Mary without becoming a sinner himself. Read. Job. 25:4. So this kind of water baptism never puts on the wedding garment. They love the Lord with all of their hearts but like the man at the wedding he was speechless because he heard this and said I am already baptized in Jesus name. I don’t believe in this doctrine.
Some people say well I was already baptized before: But in acts 19:3-5 we find people already baptized and had to be rebaptized because they did not understand what they were putting on. They realized they were not married to Jesus Christ. They did not have on a wedding garment.


I believe that Jesus knows my heart and he will judge me by how I treat people. I really don’t believe that going to heaven or Hell has anything to do with all of this.


Zeph. 1:8
John. 8:23-24
John. 6:45-55


The marriage covenant God made with Abraham and fulfilled through Jesus always demanded the believer to be circumcised for putting on a wedding garment. There never were any other interpretations we could add. Gal. 3:16-29.

Ex. 4:24-26- God sought to kill Moses because he did not circumcise his son.

Col.2:9-13- Circumcision and water baptisms go together because you are cutting away your old dust man in the water and putting on the heavenly man. This is purchasing the wedding garment so you are not speechless at the marriage supper of the Lamb.


Closing: When you become the Bride of Jesus Christ you become a legal worshipper in front of his throne. Because people who love Jesus and never put him on violate the laws of Ex.29:20-29 where all the priest must change from their garments into holy garments in order to minister in the temple. There is a difference in intimacy and the understanding of the scriptures when we put on the wedding garment.


You don’t want to miss this glorious day for the Bride of Jesus Christ:

Read Rev. 21:1-8- There will be no more weeping and he will wipe away all tears when we are changed into his image. For our vile bodies shall be changed into his glorious body Phil 3:21.
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  #268  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:55 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford View Post
If I tempt you but you have no response does that mean I did not tempt you or that you had no desire?
But not only did Satan Tempt Jesus the bible says Jesus was tempted in all points just like us....big difference between saying someone tempted him or tested him and Him being tempted like us...

Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
Jas 1:15 Then when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, it gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Do not be led astray, my dear brothers and sisters.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #269  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:56 PM
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Scott Hutchinson Scott Hutchinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford View Post
In all honesty, we are probably all saying basically the same thing.

This is one of those subjects difficult to discuss via postings. In person the conversation would be quite lively and at the end of the day I think we would all be on the same page. JMO.
Yes I agree,Although Bro.Ford You and me can be correct sometimes,HA HA HA.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
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  #270  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:56 PM
Brother Strange
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Originally Posted by rrford View Post
Hey, you of all people should appreicate that repsonse. It felt good for me to take someone else's post out of context for a change.
LOL....
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