Why I Am A Futurist

[good samaritan]

Twenty-four elders I have believed it to be 12 sons of Israel and 12 apostles. I understand that the church and the nation of Israel is all one kingdom. Over time it has always been God's kingdom, but has been in a process. The son's of God mentioned in Genesis is what we would call sons of God today(kingdom kids). Until Jesus time the law of Moses was their plan to salvation. The law was not destroyed by Jesus only fulfilled. So I think in a way the law is at work today, but that Jesus Christ is fulfillment to it the only way to be obedient and follow the law is to believe on Jesus Christ and be obedient to the faith. I heard something on another thread about Israel returning to animal sacrifices and I could see some certain part of religious Jews who would, but if they did they would be backtracking the kingdom process into something that is over and brings no salvation. Salvation does come by work, the work of God that is. Our faith and God's works. The process I've seen the kingdom go through is God working throughout time for God to bring us to the place that He desires. I believe the next step is to bring the kingdom to the next level and I feel that is the resurrection. All the confusion about time for me has not been about misc. fulfilled prophecies, but for us to be ready for that resurrection of the Church. To me that is what I see every time I read coming of the Lord.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Twenty-four elders I have believed it to be 12 sons of Israel and 12 apostles. I understand that the church and the nation of Israel is all one kingdom. Over time it has always been God's kingdom, but has been in a process. The son's of God mentioned in Genesis is what we would call sons of God today(kingdom kids). Until Jesus time the law of Moses was their plan to salvation. The law was not destroyed by Jesus only fulfilled. So I think in a way the law is at work today, but that Jesus Christ is fulfillment to it the only way to be obedient and follow the law is to believe on Jesus Christ and be obedient to the faith. I heard something on another thread about Israel returning to animal sacrifices and I could see some certain part of religious Jews who would, but if they did they would be backtracking the kingdom process into something that is over and brings no salvation. Salvation does come by work, the work of God that is. Our faith and God's works. The process I've seen the kingdom go through is God working throughout time for God to bring us to the place that He desires. I believe the next step is to bring the kingdom to the next level and I feel that is the resurrection. All the confusion about time for me has not been about misc. fulfilled prophecies, but for us to be ready for that resurrection of the Church. To me that is what I see every time I read coming of the Lord.

[good samaritan]

MB,

I know I may be repeating something already we spoke of but here it is again. "I believe" that John the Baptist was a part of the Kingdom before Christ. "I believe" that the kingdom was at a lower point in the process, thus, Jesus saying that the least shall be greater than he. John was in a time when the kingdom had less prophetic fulfillment, but it still was the kingdom. I believe that every one under the law who put there faith in God in all that had been revealed to them were kingdom kids. By obedience to the law they were indirectly placing there faith in Christ because He was the fulfillment of that law. I don't think that everyone who died in the OT was lost. Jesus died approx. A.D. 30, but God is eternal knowing no barriers and His blood sacrifice would be sufficient for eternity. I believe the blood of Jesus was flowing into eternity reaching back into Abraham's day. Thus when Jesus is referred to as the lamb slain from the foundation of the world; He was not just a plan in the mind of God at the beginning but he was God, dying for past, present, and future. He was the process that began at the fall of man. God gave Adam and Eve coats of skins to cover their nakedness and I take that literal but He spiritually gave them their covering back then, and it was the lamb (Jesus) sacrificed to cover their shame. Everything that was done prior to Jesus was leading up to Him and we await Him to return and collect the kingdom that He has molded and created into what it is today. I enjoy hearing people on the many details that I don't have a clear understanding of and my knowledge is still in process, but I love the search though.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The guns always come out blazing when someone is detected to begin to see some things we are saying, all in hopes of discouraging it.

What nonsense. Im just trying to get someone to tell us EXACTLY what their belief IS. In this case if HE or THEY admits to what they are trying to push on others they can know what they are getting into.

Example. I believe in the doctrine of the resurrection commonly known as "soul sleep". Also the doctrine that sinners die in the Gehenna fire. If someone asked me if I believe these things I would not hesitate in affirming.

I started THIS thread at least partly because the AFF is now full of threads taken over by Preterists of some form to where a future understanding of end time prophecy was hardly present here. So my
opening thread was just to let anyone interested know that its still legal on the forum to believe in future prophecy.

So if "guns are blazing" it is because its almost if not impossible to now mention prophecy without you, Dom or others taking over the thread.

AND IT HAS NOW HAPPENED AGAIN.

But it is what it is. We all are allowed to post where we please. If a thread comes down to all Prets or pre tribs patting each other on the back I can chose to exit it even if I started it in the first place.

And furthermore how is it that you who claim to believe in the future resurrection are so protective of Dom and his friends who you and I both know full well teach the faith destroying doctrine that Jesus Christ already came and the resurrection happened in 70ad?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

They certainly did for centuries. But a lot of those who were writing at the time destroyed writings of others, and most of the early writings have not even been translated yet.

But this all takes away from the need to focus on God and seek Him. It's like so many judge things by what others say. Like one preacher I know who did not even believe God could speak to him now and it was all because he saw how many claimed that and were nutcases.

There's too many variables to caught up in extrabiblical evidence. In the end, the word stands alone. That's good enough for me.

So all the early Christians were preterists until some time when the catholics took over and erased all the evidence, eh?

No wonder you guys steer away from history, it doesn't support your interpretation.

Looks to me like preterism affirms a most remarkable thing: that the evidence of the early church being preterists has all disappeared because of a conspiracy. Yet those conspirators failed to get rid of the evidence of Oneness, Jesus name baptism, tongues as normative at conversion... oh and the dreaded "chiliasm"... and other things. Only preterism was somehow wiped off the books. God preserved an historical witness for everything else... except preterism...

Brother Blume, sorry but I must say that's rather weak and unconvincing.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

goodsamaritan,

Check out this. You will see mockery against it by people who did not even read it. If anyone would actually read it they could not deny the pattern of Exodus in Revelation. It proves my point about the manner to study the book.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...8&postcount=24

Thats funny I read this and it seems pretty strained compared to other interpretations I have heard and or what the Lord showed me about it.

[Michael The Disciple]

The first Church I went to after my conversion was the Church Of Christ. About 4 months in I visited one of the Elders. Among them Elders are more basic and a Pastor is like a spokesman.

I was taught that night the same doctrine as is now being called "partial preterism". That the events of the book of Revelation had already been fulfilled in the 1st century, except for the coming of Jesus.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats funny I read this and it seems pretty strained compared to other interpretations I have heard and or what the Lord showed me about it.

We all can have our opinions, But personally it blows me away to see detailed comparisons and convinced me completely.

[Michael The Disciple]

Something else that seems odd. While Mike Blume never fails to attack the 70 weeks interpretation of dispensationalists on the basis that one of the weeks gets thrown way up into the future apart from the rest.

And yet his own view of Revelation (if I understand it) has all the things concerning the man of sin or "beast" and the judgments that occur happening in the 1st century and YET the coming of Jesus which seems to take place at the same time thrown WAY UP at least several thousand years in the future!

So the partial preterists really do the same thing as what they accuse "dispensationists" of doing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Something else that seems odd. While Mike Blume never fails to attack the 70 weeks interpretation of dispensationalists on the basis that one of the weeks gets thrown way up into the future apart from the rest.

And yet his own view of Revelation (if I understand it) has all the things concerning the man of sin or "beast" and the judgments that occur happening in the 1st century and YET the coming of Jesus which seems to take place at the same time thrown WAY UP at least several thousand years in the future!

So the partial preterists really do the same thing as what they accuse "dispensationists" of doing.

Not true. There is no specific time provided in Revelation like there is in Daniels 70 weeks, where the second coming is amongst a sequence of verses where we pt a gap in there. HUGE difference.