Obey Them that Rule???

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

This is the attitude that we ought to have.

Very, very good post.

It is the attitude we ought to have if the relationship is built on trust.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes. I wasn't sure if this was directed at someone or just a general comment, so I asked. It sounded like very strong wording and I wasn't sure what you were aiming at. Maybe you just had a strong reaction to the pontification that you've seen in the past and felt a need to post this. Otherwise you may have written "Remember that sometimes pastors have more facts than you do" which would have made the point.

ILG, when I make a point, I like for it to be strongly made.

I have found that to be most effective in terms of communicating and driving things deep into people's mind where they will remember it.

The Apostles were strong communicators, as was Jesus.

God didn't give us The Ten Suggestions.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

ILG, when I make a point, I like for it to be strongly made.

I have found that to be most effective in terms of communicating and driving things deep into people's mind where they will remember it.

The Apostles were strong communicators, as was Jesus.

God didn't give us The Ten Suggestions.

OKay, you can point it out. I personally like to point out how strong wording can hurt even when it is not intended to.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by ILG

OKay, you can point it out. I personally like to point out how strong wording can hurt even when it is not intended to.

You wouldn't have liked any of the men in the Bible.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

You seem to be saying essentially the same thing, though, Chan. You're saying unless you believe (e.g., have confidence) that a man is the man of God, or the elders are the ones God put in your life, that you should find another set of leaders...right? Unless you believe, or have confidence, that they are the ones God has ordained to lead you, then you won't follow. Am I misunderstanding you?

No, that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying we have to have confidence in GOD that HE is going to put over us those whom HE would have over us. We must first find out from God where He would have us, trust Him to tell us, and then obey Him. We are to believe God and leave the rest up to Him. He will not put us under authority that He does not want us under.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Purely a matter of principle, Coop.

I did not like school Principles either.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

You wouldn't have liked any of the men in the Bible.

I would have loved John. And I'm not opposed to strong words either. Just so that they are used right.

[Felicity]

It's a rather difficult issue .... you have to think through this whole thing and hammer out the exceptions because there are exceptions.

I don't think any person should follow leadership blindly because there are some bad leaders around and some who are pretty hard taskmasters with big egos who are concerned more about themselves and their egos than the people they are called to love and shepherd.

I never experienced that kind of bad leadership and I'm thankful but then I was just barely 20 when I married and have been under the leadership of the same man for 33 years now. I haven't had to deal with pastors and churches as an adult as a church member and not the wife of the pastor.

I know that where I come from there are wonderful beautiful saints of God who have had to move from one church to another several times because of poor leadership or doctrinal/holiness/organizational issues. It's not that they weren't submissive. It just finally came to the point where they could no longer submit themselves to that pastor for important reasons that went way beyond being rebellious or being hard to pastor people.

Originally Posted by Actaeon

Obey:

G3982
πείθω
peithō
pi'-tho
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

Everything after the :- (agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield) is nothing more than how translators have translated the passage in the KJV. They are not actual meanings/definitions of the word in question.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Mich,

I do not and did not intend to sound calloused or casual or to diminish your pain or bad experiences.

But the fact is that there is no way around it--we have to get over it.

I have had a series of bad experiences with authority figures, male ones, that would curl your hair.

I am not speaking of something I have not lived.

I have fought through long night vigils, wrestling in prayer against the beast of bitterness.

In fact, in a very recent example, my last pastor fell into moral sin and went charismatic. I would have laid down my life for him. I love him. I felt as if I would never be able to trust again.

Just a few months ago, the Lord spoke to me about the man He wanted to be my pastor. I was literally physically sick at the thought of speaking to him about it. He had given me no reason not to trust him, but because of my bad experiences, I was in a cold sweat of dread.

In fact, I humbled myself and swallowed my pride, and called his wife and confessed my fears. I could more easily trust her, you see, because she is a lady, and I have always been blessed by good women in my life. My Granny raised me, and I learned to trust women more than men.

She reassured me, and promised to pray for me, but it was still three more months before I had the conversation, and even then, it was divinely orchestrated.

So believe me, I know what it is to have trust issues.

But you still have to conquer them, regardless of how difficult or insurmountable it may seem.

Good post CS.. you are right.

I was the other way around, I have great trust issues with women. On the other hand, had the most loving father anyone could ever ask for. Never been hurt by a man other than my husband and still realized it was drugs...not the core of him.

I understand it is why I am able to submit to male authority and so thankful that for me it was the other way around. I do have difficulty with anyone being demanding, regardless of sex.

Still.. God continues to heal my problems with women in authority and it is something I'm working on.

I now have a female boss... who replaced a male who I have respect for. I am actually surprised at how well it is going. However, the few days were a little rough on me and I spent time praying about my situation.. trying to overcome issues that cause it in the first place.. it may seem insignificant to others... but if they only knew how I bristle at a domineering, head strong woman... they would understand. I have little tolerance for it. I know it is just a work situation...but I spend 8-10 hours a day here.

So, I understand what Mich has said... but totally agree with you. We have to conquer those trust issues.