((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by CC1

They would not list his name without his permission I don't think.

I think the confusion is that some folks think that everyone associated with the Tulsa meeting is committed to leaving the UPC. That is not true.

One can be interestested in exploring the possibilities and thoughts of like minded people without having made up their mind to take the leap.

I think this is a fair assessment.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by CC1

I knew that your dad had issues with TLC and that was where your opinion of him was coming from but I did not want to bring that into the discussion.

I am not saying that no wrong was done from TLC toward your dad. There may have been. What I am saying is that even if that is so it does not validate your assessment of TLC. I have spent the last 30 years around him to varying degrees and you are just flat wrong. No opinon invovloed you are just wrong. TLC has faults and has done people wrong but at some point int time so has everybody I know including myself. We are all human and make mistakes.

You can dislike TLC for something that happened between he and your dad but don't use that to mischaracterize the man by saying things that you do not know.

Oh, and I knew your comments were not intendd to be "funny". That is why they made me angry. You are posting things but a kids perspective of something that happened decades ago.

If not TLC then it will be someone else. My opinion of his wait and see. I think is valid.

His name has not been passed aroung just out the big blue sky..

I am not speaking of his being the their first GS.

I am speaking soley on his leaving.

My opinion on his seeking a higher position rests on the fact he no longer has his legacy (JCM).

The time for him to accept a higher position would be now.

Your assessment of his turning down other appointments may be true.

But at those times he had a higher committment.

Kenneth Haney did not turn down the GS appointment with all of this commitments.

TL Craft would most likely accept just as did KH.

I think he is in a wait and see until after the Tulsa meetings.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

If not TLC then it will be someone else. My opinion of his wait and see. I think is valid.

His name has not been passed aroung just out the big blue sky..

I am not speaking of his being the their first GS.

I am speaking soley on his leaving.

My opinion on his seeking a higher position rests on the fact he no longer has his legacy (JCM).

The time for him to accept a higher position would be now.

Your assessment of his turning down other appointments may be true.

But at those times he had a higher committment.

Kenneth Haney did not turn down the GS appointment with all of this commitments.

TL Craft would most likely accept just as did KH.

I think he is in a wait and see until after the Tulsa meetings.

I am not even saying he is not leaving the UPC. I would be surprised but anything is possible. I am just saying that if he does I do not think it is out of the motiviation you ascribe to him. I promise you that what motivates him is not fame or the spotlight. If he leaves it will be because of the influences on his life in these later years by ultra cons and from a heartfelt belief (no matter how misguided) that it is the right thing to do.

[revrandy]

Whatever the case... I think Tulsa will tell the tale....


It will either be a hugh success or a hugh mess...

[retsambeW]

Originally Posted by revrandy

Whatever the case... I think Tulsa will tell the tale....


It will either be a hugh success or a hugh mess...

I have heard that somewhere before in this thread. Does everyone have me on ignore?????

You and I agree on this one, for certain.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by CC1

I knew that your dad had issues with TLC and that was where your opinion of him was coming from but I did not want to bring that into the discussion.

I am not saying that no wrong was done from TLC toward your dad. There may have been. What I am saying is that even if that is so it does not validate your assessment of TLC. I have spent the last 30 years around him to varying degrees and you are just flat wrong. No opinon invovloed you are just wrong. TLC has faults and has done people wrong but at some point int time so has everybody I know including myself. We are all human and make mistakes.

You can dislike TLC for something that happened between he and your dad but don't use that to mischaracterize the man by saying things that you do not know.

Oh, and I knew your comments were not intendd to be "funny". That is why they made me angry. You are posting things but a kids perspective of something that happened decades ago.

I want to get away from any more TL Craft statements after this post.

I will accept one more rebutal from you.

My dad called TL Craft from his hospital room during the last 2 weeks of his life.

He asked Bro Craft to forgive him for his attitude towards the situations in Jackson.

He told Bro Craft that no matter the depth of the offense.

His salvation was more important.

I sat in the room that day as my dad was connected to a large Dialysis maching having his blood pass from his body through this machine.

My dad cried his heart out to Bro Craft.

I was 13 years old and cried as I saw my dad seek the mercy of God.

My dads salvation meant more to him than the offense of anyman.

My mom is 75 years old and she still has a clear recollection.

The recollections are not those of a kid.

You will not find anyone anywhere in my family as having mentioned the circumstances involving TLC and my dad.

You all out offended me with calling my recollections those of a kids perspective.

I have not been offended in years over anything.

This time I am very hurt..............

All I know is.... I sat as a 13 year old young man, not at the end of a little league bench as my dad sat in the bleachers watching me hit a pigskin ball.

I sat and watched a 43 year old man in his human frailty seek the mercy of God.

You tell me if that was a child sitting there!

[Dora]

Originally Posted by LordChocolate

If shoemake is a conservative, I am Hilary Clinton.

Start choosin' those new silk draperies for the Lincoln bedroom, LC, cuz you is now MRS. PRESIDENT!!! Welcome HIL!

[Dora]

Originally Posted by CC1

Did you feel that way about the men who left over the affirmation statement passing in 92?

Why are you disgusted? These men are very conservative. They are the very conservative of an already very conservative religious sect.

They have been unhappy for years and have felt for years that the UPC was "going liberal". Since things like motions with music, video screens, and colored lights are all "liberal" to them they have had plenty to whine about.

Now that they have decided to do what they have been leading up to for years why characterize them the way ou did?

The libs had full right to leave in 92 over the AS and these preachers have a right to leave over the TV issue. Organizations like the UPC are tools of men used to further the gospel. There is nothing sacred about the UPC itself. Men are free to join another or start another org. when the one they are a part of no longer reflects their positions.

Ok...The Affirmation Statement people...

I happen to think the Affirmation Statement was PUSHED by these ultracon wackos who would have stomped off with their marbles in '92 if they hadn't gotten their way at that time. The ministers who left for reasons of integrity were simply being HONEST, not wanting to lie or act dishonestly by signing their names to a statement that did not reflect their core values and beliefs. I still believe that forcing ministers to sign an Affirmation Statement is comparable to David's sin of counting the people. What a HUGE MESS.

So the Ultracons got their way and it seemed to placate them for a while. It puffed up their egos, so they went back to their districts and proceeded to backbite and snipe at their fellow UPC ministers from their ivory holiness towers for a few more years.

Now they have found an issue that was supposedly the LAST STRAW. But Res. 4 isn't really and truly THE ISSUE, is it? The issue is that they have been conspiring to do this for YEARS. Their behavior in this matter has been disingenuous and subversive.

If they don't appreciate the direction the UPCI is taking, that's fine. It's great that these guys are leaving to form their own org. But why not forthrightly state your reasons for leaving, state your intentions clearly, form your new org. and move on down the road. Instead they are fighting dirty...

Why not turn in your license immediately if you disagree so strongly with the UPCI's newly adopted amendment to the MANUEL??? Influencing fellow ministers to jump on board your sparkling new ship by offer positions or by using scare tactics or peer pressure...well, it just looks fishy. It looks like they are trying to do damage to the UPCI...

Is that a good thing???

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by Dora

I still cannot believe that Jonathon Shoemake is an ultracon. Just surprises me greatly. After all the mercy and grace the Lord has extended to him, seems he would want to reciprocate to his flock. But the pendulum looks to have swung waaaayyyyyy over to the right in his case.

Nathan Morton is just following his daddy...no surprise there...just wish he would break away...he's a really good guy. He has a heart of gold...hope he still has that great sense of humor.

Myles Young...great guy...fabulous singer...things that make ya go hmmmmmm. I am convinced that he would not be involved in this thing if his FIL were not NW.

TLC is desperately trying to revive JCM...bless his heart. QUICK! HOOK UP THE RESPIRATOR (even though the corpse has gone cold)!!! GET THE DEFIB PADDLES FIRED UP! CLEAR! ZZZZZZZZTTTT!!! IS THERE A PULSE, DOC??? CLEAR! ZZZZZTTTT!!! DO WE HAVE A PULSE??? MY GOD! BREATH! PLEASE BREATH!!! CLEAR! ZZZZZTTTT!

SO, is Larry Booker or Nate Wilson going to be their GS??? Let the politics continue! Whoo Hoo! Powergrab???

Wayne McClain is married to my 3rd cousin...we're RELATED! After I graduated from Life Christian Academy, he decided not to allow his young people to associate with Life Tab youth. But guess what!?!?!

You sure like to bring up the past and remind people of all that the Lord has done for them. You should beware of dipping your hands into the river of forgetfulness.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Dora

Ok...The Affirmation Statement people...

I happen to think the Affirmation Statement was PUSHED by these ultracon wackos who would have stomped off with their marbles in '92 if they hadn't gotten their way at that time. The ministers who left for reasons of integrity were simply being HONEST, not wanting to lie or act dishonestly by signing their names to a statement that did not reflect their core values and beliefs. I still believe that forcing ministers to sign an Affirmation Statement is comparable to David's sin of counting the people. What a HUGE MESS.

So the Ultracons got their way and it seemed to placate them for a while. It puffed up their egos, so they went back to their districts and proceeded to backbite and snipe at their fellow UPC ministers from their ivory holiness towers for a few more years.

Now they have found an issue that was supposedly the LAST STRAW. But Res. 4 isn't really and truly THE ISSUE, is it? The issue is that they have been conspiring to do this for YEARS. Their behavior in this matter has been disingenuous and subversive.

If they don't appreciate the direction the UPCI is taking, that's fine. It's great that these guys are leaving to form their own org. But why not forthrightly state your reasons for leaving, state your intentions clearly, form your new org. and move on down the road. Instead they are fighting dirty...

Why not turn in your license immediately if you disagree so strongly with the UPCI's newly adopted amendment to the MANUEL??? Influencing fellow ministers to jump on board your sparkling new ship by offer positions or by using scare tactics or peer pressure...well, it just looks fishy. It looks like they are trying to do damage to the UPCI...

Is that a good thing???

WOW!!! WOW!!! WOW!!!! NOw that was a mouth full!!!!
Tell us what you Really think Sister Dora!

This is just hilarious!