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| The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF. |
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07-28-2007, 07:20 AM
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Non-Resident Redneck
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,523
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The idea that Fudge exposed some dark secret is ludicrous.
As a young man growing up in Oklahoma, my pastor talked with me at length about the PCI brethren and the difference in their doctrine.
It isn't the history Fudge wrote that I object to; it is the blatant bias and agenda to denigrate that is evident from the vile, slanderous, and patently untrue title of his book.
I also read the anecdotes in the book selected to make us look like a bunch of ignorant bumpkins without a clue.
His book could have been a lot better and much more well received if he could have resisted the temptation to take cheap shots from behind his cloak of scholarship and his little Anglican robe.
But alas, apostates trying to bury the knife in their mother's back is nothing new.
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07-28-2007, 07:29 AM
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Someday, maybe I can buy him a cup of coffee...
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07-28-2007, 07:58 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner
The idea that Fudge exposed some dark secret is ludicrous.
As a young man growing up in Oklahoma, my pastor talked with me at length about the PCI brethren and the difference in their doctrine.
It isn't the history Fudge wrote that I object to; it is the blatant bias and agenda to denigrate that is evident from the vile, slanderous, and patently untrue title of his book.
I also read the anecdotes in the book selected to make us look like a bunch of ignorant bumpkins without a clue.
His book could have been a lot better and much more well received if he could have resisted the temptation to take cheap shots from behind his cloak of scholarship and his little Anglican robe.
But alas, apostates trying to bury the knife in their mother's back is nothing new.
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Elder, it may not have been a 'secret' to you, but after first learning of some things on FCF till now, it is all news to me.
The denigration you speak of I haven't witnessed yet, as I am only in Chapter One, however, I trust your judgment and take your word for that being the purpose.
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07-28-2007, 08:59 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
I agree with this post, and this is why I am NOW reading the book.
After almost 56 years of being in and around the Apostolic Church, I know what I believe and do not fear in reading this I will alter my belief.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why folks are so up in arms about this...
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Dear Sister Barbara, It very well looks as the other side is spitting nails on this issue. I was just pointing out that through one source one couldn’t make the proper decision as to a balanced view. The Fudge book is trying to make the attempt to define a movement. Now, how does that information line up with the facts contained in the past? One needs to do the proper research.
That research needs to be placed under the white-hot light of scrutiny.
Primary sources need to be examined to come up with the best overall picture. It's the ones who hate scrutiny are the ones who scream the loudest.
I think it's ridiculous how people defend Fudge's book as if it were infallible?
Search and study Sister Barbara that’s all I'm trying to say. Thomas Fudge had an axe to grind after Brother J.L. Hall, closed the garage door to the Hazelwood Library. I noticed that, and that is what I was saying.
Also if you have a writer who is offended he will present that within his writings. Did Thomas Fudge have an agenda, did he have one before he even started and it went to full bloom at he being asked to leave by Elder Hall?
Time proves all things. I doubt any would worry that you would lose faith by reading the Fudge book, We have the testimony of Martyrs from the First Century church to the Anabaptists who wouldn’t lose faith for less of a reason. Books only help to make what we have stronger. If you have a Bible Faith then Sister Barbara you will shine as the firmament.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-28-2007, 09:21 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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BTW - Back to the subject of this thread and away from Fudge for a second,
The premise of this thread is faulty because neither the New Church Order nor the AWCF are designed to take the place of the UPC or any other org.
They are umbrella groups designed to include folks from a wide range of Oneness organizations, not take the place of those org.s
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07-28-2007, 09:25 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner
The idea that Fudge exposed some dark secret is ludicrous.
As a young man growing up in Oklahoma, my pastor talked with me at length about the PCI brethren and the difference in their doctrine.
It isn't the history Fudge wrote that I object to; it is the blatant bias and agenda to denigrate that is evident from the vile, slanderous, and patently untrue title of his book.
I also read the anecdotes in the book selected to make us look like a bunch of ignorant bumpkins without a clue.
His book could have been a lot better and much more well received if he could have resisted the temptation to take cheap shots from behind his cloak of scholarship and his little Anglican robe.
But alas, apostates trying to bury the knife in their mother's back is nothing new.
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Coonskinner,
Surely you realize and will acknowledge that you are the exception to the rule. Anecdotaly from posts on AFF and it's predecessors along with my personal interaction with UPC /OP folks shows that the vast majority have never heard of the so called PCI position ever existing in the UPC ranks.
I graduated with a theology degree from a UPC Bible College and never heard one word about this.
I am sure there are exceptions such as yours where it was discussed by mentor pastors to young men in ministry but the knowledge was and still is not widely dissemenated in the UPC.
I would be willing to bet you that over 90% of UPC folks don't have a clue about this.
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07-28-2007, 09:34 AM
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Step By Step - Day By Day
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,648
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Quote:
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I think it's ridiculous how people defend Fudge's book as if it were infallible?
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Pastor Beni.......
Who has done this?
__________________
Smiles & Blessings....
~Felicity Welsh~
(surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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07-28-2007, 09:34 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Dear Sister Barbara, It very well looks as the other side is spitting nails on this issue. I was just pointing out that through one source one couldn’t make the proper decision as to a balanced view. The Fudge book is trying to make the attempt to define a movement. Now, how does that information line up with the facts contained in the past? One needs to do the proper research.
That research needs to be placed under the white-hot light of scrutiny.
Primary sources need to be examined to come up with the best overall picture. It's the ones who hate scrutiny are the ones who scream the loudest.
I think it's ridiculous how people defend Fudge's book as if it were infallible?
Search and study Sister Barbara that’s all I'm trying to say. Thomas Fudge had an axe to grind after Brother J.L. Hall, closed the garage door to the Hazelwood Library. I noticed that, and that is what I was saying.
Also if you have a writer who is offended he will present that within his writings. Did Thomas Fudge have an agenda, did he have one before he even started and it went to full bloom at he being asked to leave by Elder Hall?
Time proves all things. I doubt any would worry that you would lose faith by reading the Fudge book, We have the testimony of Martyrs from the First Century church to the Anabaptists who wouldn’t lose faith for less of a reason. Books only help to make what we have stronger. If you have a Bible Faith then Sister Barbara you will shine as the firmament.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com |
Elder, I appreciate your confidence in my ability to stand...I mean this sincerely, as it has been stated by others, and not just on forums, that we should not read this book.
What is there to fear, I ask?! That someone may find out a tidbit of info hitherto unknown to them?! Baffling... 
Question, sir...you highlighted 'now'...may I ask why?!
Re people defending TF and the book...I don't know of anyone who has stated it is infallible. Have I missed something?!
And as for TF having an axe to grind with Bro. Hall, I might, too!! I cannot imagine why he was not allowed to review any files on hand. Regardless of what his agenda may have been, wouldn't it have been better to permit him access to the library?!
Some things people do baffle me indeed...better to allow him then to leave room for questions as to why he was refused.
Anyway, it's over and done with and not my concern to begin with...just raises questions.
I need to run and get going... 
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07-28-2007, 09:49 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
Elder, I appreciate your confidence in my ability to stand...I mean this sincerely, as it has been stated by others, and not just on forums, that we should not read this book.
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ATTENTION: SISTER BARBARA, DID I IN ANY OF MY POSTS SAY THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT READ FUDGE'S BOOK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
What is there to fear, I ask?! That someone may find out a tidbit of info hitherto unknown to them?! Baffling... |
ATTENTION: SISTER BARBARA, DID I IN ANY OF MY POSTS SAY THAT ANYONE SHOULD FEAR FUDGE'S BOOK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
Question, sir...you highlighted 'now'...may I ask why?!
Re people defending TF and the book...I don't know of anyone who has stated it is infallible. Have I missed something?!
And as for TF having an axe to grind with Bro. Hall, I might, too!! I cannot imagine why he was not allowed to review any files on hand. Regardless of what his agenda may have been, wouldn't it have been better to permit him access to the library?!
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Sister THAT IS what I'm talking about! Study it out for yourself. Be a good detective do some research come up with facts that you have found.
Don't only say that the Fudge book has good information prove it to be an un-biased historical work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
Some things people baffle me indeed...better to allow him then to leave room for questions as to why he was refused.
Anyway, it's over and done with and not my concern to begin with...just raises questions.
I need to run and get going... |
Have a wonderful, and I hope you read the Fudge book better than the postings here on this forum.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-28-2007, 09:51 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
BTW - Back to the subject of this thread and away from Fudge for a second,
The premise of this thread is faulty because neither the New Church Order nor the AWCF are designed to take the place of the UPC or any other org.
They are umbrella groups designed to include folks from a wide range of Oneness organizations, not take the place of those org.s
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You are correct sir.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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