Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
EB, I asked you this question earlier in the thread, and forgive me if I overlooked your answer, but if you would be so kind as to respond again -
Do you believe this is a salvational issue? If a Christian decorates a tree, exchanges gifts, listens to Christmas carols, etc. do you believe they will go to hell?
I think you have his answer in his silence Mike.
I'm thinking maybe. However, EB is not usually one to shun such questions, so maybe he's busy.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
I'm thinking maybe. However, EB is not usually one to shun such questions, so maybe he's busy.
Is that allowed? Is the fact that someone has something other to do with live other than being on AFF allowed??? Oh this isnt the everythings a question thread is it? Ok, is it alright if I get back to my life beyond AFF now?
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
Romans 14 is speaking of not doing pagan traditions to cause your ex-pagan Brother to stumble. You see he gave up fornication with temple prostitutes, and eating things offered to idols, he is the new convert, and now he is watching you indulging in the name of Lord.
He loses his respect for you and your religion, keep in mind that the pagan was told that you had the TRUTH.
All he sees is that your so called truth is, is partial truth cloaked in his old pagan traditions.
We are living in a Internet anti-Christian world in where people have all kinds of information at their fingertips, and we need to presents good solid arguments to those who want answers and not just chestnuts roasting on an open fire.
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Benincasa,
You and the other anti-Christmas folks have not really responded to the core issue in Romans 14:5-6 which I've spoken of . Paul makes it very clear that one saint might choose a honor the Lord on a particular day, while another saint may choose not to . "Let each me fully convinced in his own mind".
If you choose not to observe Dec 25th as unto the Lord, then just don't, that's all.
What is so hard about that?
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
Something tells me this issue will die out in about 6 weeks or so (after Christmans)... and then next October/November it will start to heat up again.
I guess this is has become kind of an annual ritual on Apostolic message boards every year around this time.
And folks will just keep arguing about this till Jesus comes.
Meanwhile, I'll run along and see if there are other more worthy and interesting topics to discuss on this board.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
EB, I asked you this question earlier in the thread, and forgive me if I overlooked your answer, but if you would be so kind as to respond again -
Do you believe this is a salvational issue? If a Christian decorates a tree, exchanges gifts, listens to Christmas carols, etc. do you believe they will go to hell?
I think you have his answer in his silence Mike.
BUMP for EB, since I see that you are back on!
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
Re: If We Shun the Trinity Because It's Unbiblical
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance
Benincasa,
You and the other anti-Christmas folks have not really responded to the core issue in Romans 14:5-6 which I've spoken of . Paul makes it very clear that one saint might choose a honor the Lord on a particular day, while another saint may choose not to . "Let each me fully convinced in his own mind".
If you choose not to observe Dec 25th as unto the Lord, then just don't, that's all.
What is so hard about that?
Great point. I was attending a wedding at a UPCI mega church when I noticed one of the opening themes from a James Bond movie playing. I asked one of the other saint about this. He said do not worry, we can take things dedicated to the devil and rededicate them to God.
Re: If We Shun the Trinity Because It's Unbiblical
I believe that true Christianity is a spiritual kingdom. It is comprised of every nation, kindred, people, and tongue. There is no set language, national allegiance, culture, or calendar of holiday's in Christianity. As a result, Christianity is the most universally applicable religion on earth. As a result, Christianity can flourish in any setting and be lived and experienced among any devoted group of people.
The above being the case, this spiritual kingdom permeates all the nations and cultures of this world. And this means that Christians live in various cultures wherein the local culture has adopted festivals, traditions, customs, etc. Christians do well to abstain from participating in these cultural festivities especially if they involve/promote actual pagan practice or sinful debauchery. Halloween is one such holiday a Christian does well to avoid unless their participation only celebrates the season and the harvest. We do not celebrate ghosts, witches, demons, and the occult. A Fall Family Night celebration or Harvest Celebration is perfectly fine as a Christian alternative.
Many holidays such as Christmas, Valentine's Day, Saint Patrick's Day, Good Friday, Easter, and All Hallows Eve/All Saints Day/All Souls Day (Hallowmas), have their roots in the Catholic Liturgical calendar. These holidays were Catholic attempts to provide Christian set alternatives to the prevailing pagan festivals of pre-Christian Europe. And their attempts to provide Christian alternatives essentially worked as far as cultural identification is concerned. However, those pagans converted to Christianity often brought into these liturgical holidays traditions with pagan origins.
Today, many of these traditions are so far removed from their pagan origins that they have become more cultural/seasonal décor or tradition than actual "pagan practice". Christians can feel free to abstain from these festivals and all practices involved. Or a Christian can determine to what extent they will participate and even what elements of the "Christian tradition" they will recognize during each festival. It is a matter of conscience but care must be taken not to offend one's own conscience or the conscience of another.
Then there are secular or national holidays that are only related to our American identity:
New Year's Day
Martin Luther King Day
President's Day
Memorial Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
Columbus Day
Veterans Day
Thanksgiving Day
These holidays call to remembrance elements of our national identity. There are no overt religious meanings or origins for these holidays. A Christian may freely participate in any observance of these holidays at all levels unless conscience bids them otherwise.
Other holidays that are lesser known are largely "cultural" and have their emphasis in local history, local communities, or within specific ethnic groups. These are:
African Heritage & Health Week : February 1-7
April Fool's Day: April 1
Asian/Pacific American Heritage Month: May
Chinese New Year: winter, date varies
Cinco de Mayo: May 5
Father's Day: June, third Sunday
Flag Day: June 14
Groundhog Day: February 2
Kwanzaa: December 26 - January 1
Leif Erikson Day - October 9
Mardi Gras and Ash Wednesday late winter, date varies
Mother's Day: May; second Sunday
Native American Heritage Day - the day following Thanksgiving
Oktoberfest: late September to early October
Rosh Hashanah: depends on Hebrew calendar
Sadie Hawkins Day: Saturday that follows November 9
Yom Kippur: depends on Hebrew calendar
These cultural or ethnic holidays can be freely abstained from or participated in according to conscience unless participation will subject one to drunkenness or debauchery. Mardi Gras is a great example because of the revelry and public nudity typically associated with the holiday. Now, this doesn't mean that a Christian is in sin if they eat a Mardi Gras cupcake at a rather tame office party or carry in. But to attend a street event that is filled with excessive drinking, nudity, and revelry is nothing a Christian should participate in.
But it is important to remember, NONE of these holidays belong to the Kingdom of God. None of them. And so a Christian is in perfect harmony with the Spirit of God and Scripture if they abstain from all holidays and festivals altogether.
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