KH believes the Light Doctrine??

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Theophil

Why do you say this?

It was not me that said it.

Someone else here on this thread...Keithforhim I believe, said that in public Kenneth Haney says one thing, in private he says another. In popular culture that is a condition known as two faced...

[TRFrance]

For those who do believe in the light doctrine, what is the strongest set of scriptural passages they use to support this belief?


.

[Sam]

Kenneth Haney believes the Light Doctrine?
So what?

I'm sure there are many, many pastors, teachers, saints in Apostolic churches who believe in the Light Doctrine.

Bishop G.T. Haywood taught that folks who were not in the Bride of Christ would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Bro. S.G. Norris taught at the Apostolic Bible Institute that folks who were not in the Bride of Christ would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Bro. F.E. Curts, Supt of the Ohio District for many years, and a man considered a "Bible Teacher" by many, taught that folks who were not in the Bride of Christ would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

I personally heard both Brother Norris and Brother Curts teach this. I read it in Bishop Haywood's book on the resurrection.

These men were considered "great men" among Apostolics and had a lot of influence over the years. Whether you believe in the Light Doctrine or not, it is a valid theology in our Apostolic ranks.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

For those who do believe in the light doctrine, what is the strongest set of scriptural passages they use to support this belief?


.

Since the very essence of God is LIGHT, there are literally dozens of scripture that speak of the light.

Jhn 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

You can find dozens more of scriptures that equate life to light and vice-versa. Jesus said that he was the light of the world, whosoever followeth him shall now walk in darkness.

The light doctrine is obvious to me.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Sam

Kenneth Haney believes the Light Doctrine?
So what?

I'm sure there are many, many pastors, teachers, saints in Apostolic churches who believe in the Light Doctrine.

Bishop G.T. Haywood taught that folks who were not in the Bride of Christ would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Bro. S.G. Norris taught at the Apostolic Bible Institute that folks who were not in the Bride of Christ would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Bro. F.E. Curts, Supt of the Ohio District for many years, and a man considered a "Bible Teacher" by many, taught that folks who were not in the Bride of Christ would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment.

I personally heard both Brother Norris and Brother Curts teach this. I read it in Bishop Haywood's book on the resurrection.

These men were considered "great men" among Apostolics and had a lot of influence over the years. Whether you believe in the Light Doctrine or not, it is a valid theology in our Apostolic ranks.

Very true Sam, and this is a fact that is squelched to some degree among todays Oneness Pentecostals. The historical facts are just that and well documented should one care to search it out.

Many have held that the "Bride of Christ" was something “separate and special."

Howard Goss the first UPC General Superintendent believed in the "light" doctrine, and stated "I have not and do not teach that a person will go to hell if he has not been baptized with the Holy Spirit"

W T Witherspoon assistant General Superintendent of the UPC wrote "they that have not been taught concerning the Bible New Birth but have thoroughly repented and lived what they know of the Christian life will be on the right hand at the white throned Judgment..." and will be "Delegated to the Kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world".

G T Haywood Taught there were "levels of status in the Kingdom of God".

S G Norris taught the Holy, Righteous, and Wicked" the "Righteous" were to inhabit the new earth.

Ralph Reynolds made a distinction between those who were "begotten" and those who were "born again."

Frank Ewart wrote about parting with his dear friend when the Oneness camp left the AG. "But despite all these things our love for each other survived, and this divine love will be renewed in glory where we will all see eye to eye and doctrinal differences will never again intrude."

It is also interesting to note that in 1995 the UPC changed their articles of faith from "repentance and conversion" to simply "repentance".

My views are still developing but have in the past been that there is a sort of "light" doctrine when God will judge individuals according to what they know... concerning the ultimate price he paid on the cross and the condition of our hearts regarding that knowledge.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Very true Sam, and this is a fact that is squelched to some degree among todays Oneness Pentecostals. The historical facts are just that and well documented should one care to search it out.

Many have held that the "Bride of Christ" was something “separate and special."

Howard Goss the first UPC General Superintendent believed in the "light" doctrine, and stated "I have not and do not teach that a person will go to hell if he has not been baptized with the Holy Spirit"

W T Witherspoon assistant General Superintendent of the UPC wrote "they that have not been taught concerning the Bible New Birth but have thoroughly repented and lived what they know of the Christian life will be on the right hand at the white throned Judgment..." and will be "Delegated to the Kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world".

G T Haywood Taught there were "levels of status in the Kingdom of God".

S G Norris taught the Holy, Righteous, and Wicked" the "Righteous" were to inhabit the new earth.

Ralph Reynolds made a distinction between those who were "begotten" and those who were "born again."

Frank Ewart wrote about parting with his dear friend when the Oneness camp left the AG. "But despite all these things our love for each other survived, and this divine love will be renewed in glory where we will all see eye to eye and doctrinal differences will never again intrude."

It is also interesting to note that in 1995 the UPC changed their articles of faith from "repentance and conversion" to simply "repentance".

My views are still developing but have in the past been that there is a sort of "light" doctrine when God will judge individuals according to what they know... concerning the ultimate price he paid on the cross and the condition of our hearts regarding that knowledge.

Great post SH. Thank you!

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Very true Sam, and this is a fact that is squelched to some degree among todays Oneness Pentecostals. The historical facts are just that and well documented should one care to search it out.

Many have held that the "Bride of Christ" was something “separate and special."

Howard Goss the first UPC General Superintendent believed in the "light" doctrine, and stated "I have not and do not teach that a person will go to hell if he has not been baptized with the Holy Spirit"

W T Witherspoon assistant General Superintendent of the UPC wrote "they that have not been taught concerning the Bible New Birth but have thoroughly repented and lived what they know of the Christian life will be on the right hand at the white throned Judgment..." and will be "Delegated to the Kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world".

G T Haywood Taught there were "levels of status in the Kingdom of God".

S G Norris taught the Holy, Righteous, and Wicked" the "Righteous" were to inhabit the new earth.

Ralph Reynolds made a distinction between those who were "begotten" and those who were "born again."

Frank Ewart wrote about parting with his dear friend when the Oneness camp left the AG. "But despite all these things our love for each other survived, and this divine love will be renewed in glory where we will all see eye to eye and doctrinal differences will never again intrude."

It is also interesting to note that in 1995 the UPC changed their articles of faith from "repentance and conversion" to simply "repentance".

My views are still developing but have in the past been that there is a sort of "light" doctrine when God will judge individuals according to what they know... concerning the ultimate price he paid on the cross and the condition of our hearts regarding that knowledge.

While I am sure there were quite a few old timers that may have believed in some form of Light Doctrine, or the Friends of the Bride Doctrine, it is not they that I am compelled to follow, but the Word of God. I see NO room for salvation other than through faithful obedience to the Gospel. The promise of Salvation (Holy Ghost) is given to those that obey by repenting of their sins, and being baptized in Jesus Name, which is the putting off (burial) of the old man.

I still say that someone that believes the Light Doctrine, or the FOB doctrine, cannot truly believe that Acts 2:38 is the only way of salvation. It brings confusion and an uncertain sound to the message that the UPCI declares it believes. I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone that declares Acts 2:38 to be the only way can continue to support the GS. And before anyone has a cow, it has nothing to do with his person. But to be the leader of an org that declares Acts 2:38 to be the only way of salvation, and hold a belief that is contrary to this is really strange. Yet he was unanimously reelected. I think somewhere the baby has been dropped.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

While I am sure there were quite a few old timers that may have believed in some form of Light Doctrine, or the Friends of the Bride Doctrine, it is not they that I am compelled to follow, but the Word of God. I see NO room for salvation other than through faithful obedience to the Gospel. The promise of Salvation (Holy Ghost) is given to those that obey by repenting of their sins, and being baptized in Jesus Name, which is the putting off (burial) of the old man.

I still say that someone that believes the Light Doctrine, or the FOB doctrine, cannot truly believe that Acts 2:38 is the only way of salvation. It brings confusion and an uncertain sound to the message that the UPCI declares it believes. I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone that declares Acts 2:38 to be the only way can continue to support the GS. And before anyone has a cow, it has nothing to do with his person. But to be the leader of an org that declares Acts 2:38 to be the only way of salvation, and hold a belief that is contrary to this is really strange. Yet he was unanimously reelected. I think somewhere the baby has been dropped.

hmmmm... and I still say the majority of the 20+ million Oneness Pentecostals in the world today do not view Oneness Pentecostals as God's Only Chosen Christians. The narrow exclusivism is a minority view not only among Christians but among Oneness Pentecostals themselves.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

While I am sure there were quite a few old timers that may have believed in some form of Light Doctrine, or the Friends of the Bride Doctrine, it is not they that I am compelled to follow, but the Word of God. I see NO room for salvation other than through faithful obedience to the Gospel. The promise of Salvation (Holy Ghost) is given to those that obey by repenting of their sins, and being baptized in Jesus Name, which is the putting off (burial) of the old man.

I still say that someone that believes the Light Doctrine, or the FOB doctrine, cannot truly believe that Acts 2:38 is the only way of salvation. It brings confusion and an uncertain sound to the message that the UPCI declares it believes. I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone that declares Acts 2:38 to be the only way can continue to support the GS. And before anyone has a cow, it has nothing to do with his person. But to be the leader of an org that declares Acts 2:38 to be the only way of salvation, and hold a belief that is contrary to this is really strange. Yet he was unanimously reelected. I think somewhere the baby has been dropped.

I think we are looking at what we call "The Light Doctrine" a couple of different ways.

1. Some Apostolics believe that a person is justified/saved/regenerated at faith and repentance prior to water and/or Spirit baptism. On this forum we usually designate these folks as "one-steppers." When the UPC was formed in 1945 there were "one-steppers" in that new organization and there still are. This is a valid doctrinal viewpoint among Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals. Since one-steppers believe that a person is born again at faith and repentance, anyone (regardless of church affiliation) who has made this personal commitment to Jesus is saved and part of the body of Christ. Some folks refer to this as "The Light Doctrine."

2. Others, such as S.G. Norris, G.T. Haywood, and F.E. Curts believed strongly that a person was not saved or born again until he/she had repented, been water baptized in Jesus' Name, and had received the Holy Ghost Baptism. There are many ministers who believe this way. They believe that a person is not a child of God, not in the Body of Christ, and not rapture ready unless they have experienced all of those three steps. They will not, however, categorically say that all those who have not completed those three steps will go to Hell. They believe that God will judge everyone by how well they lived up to all the light they had and if they did walk in whatever light they had, they would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 and Matthew 25:31-46.

[Sam]

This is from page 7 of Bishop G.T. Haywood's book on the Resurrection of the Dead. Here he explains about the "second resurrection" and those who receive eternal life at that resurrection. This second resurrection is 1000 years after the first resurrection of Rev. 20:4-7. The first resurrection (according to Bro. Haywood) includes Jesus, those who were raised from the dead after His resurrection, those who were in the rapture, and those who gave their lives in the tribulation.

The Second Resurrection.

According to the inspired word of God the resurrection of the
"blessed and Holy" is completed a thousand years before the second
resurrection. It is from this point that we are obliged to note the
difference between partakers of the two resurrections.

After the thousand years expire "the rest of the dead" (those who
did not come forth in the first resurrection) both righteous and
wicked, live again and are made to stand before God. It is then that
Jesus separates them as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goat
according to Matt. 25:31-46.

In this resurrection is included all the righteous men of all
ages who walked in all the light that they were given. It is my candid
opinion that all heathen, Israelites, Christian professors who have
never heard the true gospel of Christ and those who die during
the millennium, walking in the light of their times will be given
eternal life at the last resurrection.

Many righteous people have died without the Holy Ghost and
the question has been asked: "Where will they come in?" They shall be
given eternal life in the last day. They shall inherit the New
Earth where life eternal reigns because "there shall be no more death."

If we desire to take part in the first resurrection we must be
filled with the same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. It
is the church of the First-born that takes part in the first
resurrection. To enter into that Church, which is his body, we must be
baptized into it by both water and the Spirit.
6:3-5; 1 Cor. 12:12, 13; Gal. 3:26-28.