1000 year reign

[Charlie Brown]

The LAST enemy that is defeated is Death. All other enemies are defeated prior to Death being dealt with.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mfblume

One point you NEVER responded to was Paul's quote of Isa 25:8 in 1 Cor 15:54. Isaiah 25:8 also says that when death is swallowed up in victory, God wipes away all tears. This perfectly fits with my beliefs that the rapture takes us to the white throne, and not to a millennium, because Rev 21:4 says God wipes away all tears after the white throne, and it is then that death is GONE FOREVER, just as I claimed the rapture takes us to the white throne.

You say I never responded to your point. Yet here is what I did respond on page 19 of this thread.


But Mfblume does not account for the MANY scriptures covering events BETWEEN the rapture and the White Throne Judgment. Amillenium teaching cannot explain WHO IS BEING RULED OVER AFTER THE RAPTURE HAS OCCURED.

However the SCRIPTURES show various time Saints RULING over nations of people.

Can one scripture such as "death being swallowed up in victory" be applied to more than one event?

Here is an example of one scripture being applied to two separate events that were HUNDREDS OF YEARS APART.

The Spirit applied this concerning the exodus from Egypt.

1: When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
2: As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images. Hosea 11:1-2

Yet the Spirit applies this same verse hundreds of years later to the time when Jesus came back from Egypt.

14: When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Matt. 2:14-15

So God has been known to apply one scripture to several events. If he says death ends in 1 Cor. 15 then it means death ends for the Saints who were IN CHRIST at his coming.

Then after the 1000 year reign we see the White Throne judgment. There the wicked receive their judgment. When they are cast into Gehenna along with death and hades then that same context of scripture is used to describe the COMPLETE annihilation of the lost along with death itself.

Personally I dont think I have total understanding of how the Kingdom will unfold from now to eternity. However the Amillenium teaching seems to ignore or symbolize away a lot of scripture. To much for me to feel comfortable with.

Will this satisfy Mfblume? No. I dont expect it will. Yet in taking into account all scripture I believe this is more in line with the whole counsel of YHWH than the total symbolizing method of interpretation.

Does his interpretation satisfy me and many others? No.

So yes I did and you responded to what I said!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Mfblume



You say I never responded to your point. Yet here is what I did respond on page 19 of this thread.


But Mfblume does not account for the MANY scriptures covering events BETWEEN the rapture and the White Throne Judgment. Amillenium teaching cannot explain WHO IS BEING RULED OVER AFTER THE RAPTURE HAS OCCURED.

However the SCRIPTURES show various time Saints RULING over nations of people.

Can one scripture such as "death being swallowed up in victory" be applied to more than one event?

Here is an example of one scripture being applied to two separate events that were HUNDREDS OF YEARS APART.

The Spirit applied this concerning the exodus from Egypt.

1: When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
2: As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images. Hosea 11:1-2

Yet the Spirit applies this same verse hundreds of years later to the time when Jesus came back from Egypt.

14: When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Matt. 2:14-15

So God has been known to apply one scripture to several events. If he says death ends in 1 Cor. 15 then it means death ends for the Saints who were IN CHRIST at his coming.

Then after the 1000 year reign we see the White Throne judgment. There the wicked receive their judgment. When they are cast into Gehenna along with death and hades then that same context of scripture is used to describe the COMPLETE annihilation of the lost along with death itself.

Personally I dont think I have total understanding of how the Kingdom will unfold from now to eternity. However the Amillenium teaching seems to ignore or symbolize away a lot of scripture. To much for me to feel comfortable with.

Will this satisfy Mfblume? No. I dont expect it will. Yet in taking into account all scripture I believe this is more in line with the whole counsel of YHWH than the total symbolizing method of interpretation.

Does his interpretation satisfy me and many others? No.

So yes I did and you responded to what I said!

I responded to all you quoted above, and showed what I conside ryour oversight. You never responded back to that, though. All the while you posted this you could have responded in turn. Thanks, anyway.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

The LAST enemy that is defeated is Death. All other enemies are defeated prior to Death being dealt with.

Exactly.

[Michael The Disciple]

After Jesus ceases to reign at the rapture who will God the Father and the Saints rule over then?

3: And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5: And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Rev. 22:3-5

They will rule over all creation as was the original intent with man:

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The only reason Christ and the Church rule now with "an iron fist" is due to the enemies of Christ that need to be overcome. There is no need to rule with an iron fist when all enemies are defeated, much like the original creation given to man to rule in the beginning.

Just my thoughts for your consideration. God bless.

[Michael The Disciple]

Teacher said:

They will rule over all creation as was the original intent with man:

If the Saints are reigning and no one else exists what are they reigning over? What do you mean by the creation?

What was Adam intended to rule over?

Since the saints will reign with Christ for ever and ever, who or what are they reigning over after the 1,000 year reign, from your futurist point of view?

[Michael The Disciple]

Confusion in the amillenial theology.

1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev. 20:1-9

As I understand their view the 1000 year reign represents the Church age. In verses 2-3 satan is bound for a thousand years in a bottomless pit. So satan is bound in a certain place. They teach that this binding occured when Jesus rose again. When pressed on the nature of the binding they seem to to say it specifically refers to satan not being able to deceive the nations during the Church age.

Yet we see this as fact DURING THE CHURCH AGE.

3: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:3

How can satan be bound and shut up in a bottomless pit and still at the same time be god of this world? If he has a seal on him DURING THE CHURCH AGE to not deceive nations why is he still their god?

Also this:

5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9: If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11: And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12: And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. Rev. 13:5-14

So the devil who has a seal on him NOT to deceive the nations IS DECEIVING THE NATIONS IN THE CHURCH AGE! They say the mark of the beast era was Nero's reign so the time frame is in the Church age.

In verse 4 We see the souls beheaded for the mark of the beast. They are on thrones having pataken of the first resurrection which they say represents our new birth and NOT literal resurrection.

But how is it they were first killed during the reign of the beast which they say was Nero BEFORE THEY TOOK PART IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION? They were slain by Rome before they were born again unto Christ?

Then they are supposed to be reigning for a thousand years (which is the Church age).

But then in verse 7 the Church age expires. It is over. Most would say the rapture has taken place for the Church age to be over. If the Church age is over according to them then all the enemies of Christ have been subdued in that time frame (Church age). Death itself was to be defeated once and for all when the rapture happens.

Yet AFTER the Church age is over THEN we see satan on the loose again out deceiving the nations. VERSE 7.

So though the Church age is past when satan WAS BOUND TO NO LONGER DECEIVE NATIONS and all things are subdued to Christs authority and Christ is no longer reigning NOW satan comes back on the scene and gathers many followers. Verse 8.

It sounds confusing on this end. The first resurrection seems to connect much easier with THIS:

13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thess. 4:13-18

If we allow THAT as the first resurrection at the second coming much confusion goes away!

Feel free to comment on part or all this post. I will be working today so may not get back to this till late tonight.

[Michael The Disciple]

What was Adam intended to rule over?

Since the saints will reign with Christ for ever and ever, who or what are they reigning over after the 1,000 year reign, from your futurist point of view?

The nations that are left.

16: And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17: And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18: And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19: This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20: In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21: Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Zech. 14:21

22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24: And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:22-24

This is what is meant in Rev. 22.

24: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25: And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26: And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Nations that are saved means nations that were SPARED. The leaves of the tree are for their healing.

1: And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2: In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3: And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5: And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Rev. 22:1-5

At the second coming nations power will be taken away to reign yet some of their lives are PROLONGED:

9: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10: A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11: I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12: As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan. 7:9-12

This is how I see it. Thanks for asking.