#1. No one has elaborated on why the "magick" in the bible must have been "real" and not just illusions / power of suggestion.
#2. No one has offered any evidence that magick is real. I've heard alot of claims that it is. I've even heard slightly more specific claims that it gives power over animals and weather, however, I have not heard any specifics about any of these claimed incidents. I am starting to wonder why the specifics aren't offered. Maybe the mystery around these incidents is what makes them believable and once that mystery is taken away then its easy to see through the claims? If that's not it, then do those claiming its real have any excuse as to why they don't give more details?
#3. If magick in the bible was real (like the exodus stick to serpent account) and if magick today is real then a practitoner of magick today ought to be able to throw down a stick and have it turn into a serpent. I've not heard anyone claiming that is possible. For some reason this question was quitely read over and forgotten about earlier in this thread... (Oh how it makes me wonder...) So does anyone know of a person that can throw down a stick and have it literally turn into a serpent? Is such a thing even theoretically possible using the magick yall practiced?
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Wouldn't you consider the Egyptian dewds turning their sticks into serpents magic(k)? If you already addressed that I missed it....
Find me one person today that can do such a thing and I will believe in magick. (Until then I think its most sensible to believe they performed an illusion much like magicians today do and only made it appear that they turned a stick into a snake)
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So, are you shakin' in your boots? Do you dread the evil emanations coming up from Brazil, Haiti and other hot beds of the occult? Do you avoid ladders, black cats and chicken gizzards?
People do live in fear, that's what I was warning against. But all of the mumbo-jumbo and "Pigs in the Parlor" nonsense that goes around in Christian circles actually pumps up the devil and does very little to set people free.
If you're happy with "ministries" and activity like Bob Larson, Mike Warnke and other exposed frauds - go for it. Growing up, educating oneself and living in the 21st Century will give you far more power than a string of garlic.
My assertion still stands. Your mumbo-jumbo is useless. The "spells" and incantations of the occult are make-believe nonsense. Pandering to this tripe is what gets people bound. Take a stand against bondage and promote healthy living and the freedom we have in Jesus Christ.
Are you saying these guys admitted to be fakes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
My original assertion that has continued to stymie you folks is that no one can cast an authentic "spell" over another person without at least a couple of conditions being met.
1) The person being "bewitched" must know that they are a "target" of the "spell."
2) And, they must believe that the "spell" is efficacious (that it can "work").
I said nothing that casts any doubts upon the existence of "spirits" (or "demons" or what have you). I didn't even express any doubts about the existence of the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. I simply offered those two conditions and being necessary for any "spell" to work.
It was the general unbelief and doubts of the actual practitioners of "magik" ("magic" and "magick") that has spawned the rather strained and forced attempts to belittle what I have said.
Meanwhile, what I have said stands unchallenged to this day.
I know a missionary that knew she had a hex cast on her. I have always been taught that a Holy Ghost filled person could not be harmed by a hex/spell. She did die. I don't know that she believed it, but she lived in a country that is full of voodoo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog
A few of my observations:
#1. No one has elaborated on why the "magick" in the bible must have been "real" and not just illusions / power of suggestion.
#2. No one has offered any evidence that magick is real. I've heard alot of claims that it is. I've even heard slightly more specific claims that it gives power over animals and weather, however, I have not heard any specifics about any of these claimed incidents. I am starting to wonder why the specifics aren't offered. Maybe the mystery around these incidents is what makes them believable and once that mystery is taken away then its easy to see through the claims? If that's not it, then do those claiming its real have any excuse as to why they don't give more details?
#3. If magick in the bible was real (like the exodus stick to serpent account) and if magick today is real then a practitoner of magick today ought to be able to throw down a stick and have it turn into a serpent. I've not heard anyone claiming that is possible. For some reason this question was quitely read over and forgotten about earlier in this thread... (Oh how it makes me wonder...) So does anyone know of a person that can throw down a stick and have it literally turn into a serpent? Is such a thing even theoretically possible using the magick yall practiced?
I don't know why you would expect anyone that believes the Word of God to have doubts about what it says???
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Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
Find me one person today that can do such a thing and I will believe in magick. (Until then I think its most sensible to believe they performed an illusion much like magicians today do and only made it appear that they turned a stick into a snake)
I have no concern over whether you believe it or whether it happens today. lol Moses apparently believed it really happened and somehow did the same thing... *shrug*
But if Prax shares this view, than that answers my question to him.
1. I didn't see anywhere that Prax was suggesting the starter of this thread was delusional. My understanding was his question was in "general" not person specific.
2. Question for Pel; are you saying you don't believe any of the personal experiences that have been related here on this thread?
3. My observation is folks are quoting the Bible and giving their interpretation on what it says and if anyone disagrees with them then they are clueless. And this is from both sides of the aisles.
__________________
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
If you promote that which can never be proven one way or the other then you just may end up "holding fast" to that which isn't "good."
Promoting fear and superstition isn't "good." Asserting that your mere opinion is in fact "what the Word of God" says on a subject is hubris and presumption. You can't even make a case to substantiate this opinion - yet you claim it to be the counsel of God. Lame, and potentially, blasphemous.
Why don't you pack it in? You have insinuated that everyone who doesn't see it your way is hell bound, yet you haven't even attempted to offer a single point substantiating your opinion.
DO animals believe in it? My border collie is pretty smart.......
Have you ever made it rain, or not rain, in a manner that is repeatable?
As far as inanimate objects, does this involve any objects above and beyond what Uri Geller dealt with? Toothpicks, pencils, etc.
Throwing out assertions that merely insinuate his claim is the hallmark of a practiced fraud. Notice that 'Toot didn't actually come right out and say that he had ever witnessed the "animals" and "weather" and etc. being controlled by "magick." He merely insinuates that this is the case. So we supposedly would be wrong to press him for details while his insinuations stand unchallenged. I don't play along with frauds.
When you press for them for details, the practiced and experienced fraud will always recoil in mock "horror." This is exactly what 'Toot has done here. He makes bold assertions and then when pressed, he falls back onto his "heroin addict" whine or pretends to be the oracles of Almighty God.
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