Do You Believe and/or Teach that Standards are Heaven-Hell Issues?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Okay, well I didn't really mean for it to get personal between me and you or somebody else -- just talking in a general sense about personal conviction ....... because some people use the "personal conviction" thing (which I believe we can have and probably all do have to a degree) as an excuse to break with mandate and principle of scripture.

I wasn't making it personal. Just using two extreme examples of how divergent people live. It's our own personal choice. We are all capable of making our own decisions.

I don't think people, for the most part, are trying to break with mandate and principle of scripture.

Just like politics, we are not all going to agree on religion or the principles of religion. It's always been that way and always will be.

[Brother Price]

This is another false assumption in many believer's lives. The pastor will preach a standard, and the backslidden rebel will say that they have no conviction on that issue. They will claim it not as part of their personal convictions. But, in all essence, it is the attempt to rebel against the God given authority in the believer's life.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Obvously you don't know what's happening at our church. We've had people filled with the Holy Ghost and baptized in Jesus Name almost every service. At least one service a week there is a testimony of deliverance from drugs, alcohol, nicotine. Testimonies of healings from ulcers to cancers occur almost every service. We've had more tongues and interpretations in the past six weeks than you've had at your church the past 10 years combined. Other gifts of the Spirt have been evident every service. We had a staff meeting for all the staff and for those who wanted to serve on the staff. A lady who has been coming to church for a little over a month came to the meeting. We had a Holy Ghost breakout and she got the Holy Ghost. We've seen devils cast out of people. I serve the children's ministry and the past two months we've seen almost a dozen children get baptized in Jesus Name and filled w/the Holy Ghost. What am I missing? Oh yeah... One guy who was blind in one eye for three years regained his sight, and the spot on his lung that was cancer for some reason disappeared. Financial miracles are happening. God is providing jobs for our church members in the county with the highest unemployment rate in the state. The public school system allows our church in the schools and doesn't stop us from witnessing in the hallways. As a result of my wife's work with our local PTO, we've had one family come to our church. God has provided favor for us to be influential in our community. My wife was recently elected PTO president. My daughter's participation in local sports have resulted in some her friends getting the Holy Ghost. We outgrew the prison recreation room in our prison ministry. We are looking to secure bigger facilities for the increasing numbers of prisoners that are coming to the prison services. Got a standing offer to air our services free of charge on local television and radio stations. We had a upci missionary at our church last week who was so bound by tradition he couldn't worship. He moved from the front row to the back. Our new converts worshipped circles around this guy.

No one can wear the demonstration of the power of the Holy Ghost.

We give people an alternative to the phoney blue denim whale crowd that has nothing to offer but a poor pitiful life serving Christ. The life that are two steps away from the vow of poverty the catholics take. Thank God there aren't many of self righteous people at our church.

I, too, give God the praise for what He is doing through the congregation you are a part of.

Just don't forget that there are congregations that equal and exceed these wonderful things who DO hold to very conservative standards.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Sherri

What do you mean? That they would have told me to take a hike if there had been a "Pentecostal looking" woman coming up behind me??? I don't think so.

Gotta love it when someone asks a question after asking what you mean who then proceeds to answer their own question when they could have saved a lot of typing by waiting for the answer, "No, that is not what I mean."

The scenario is about who would be chosen first in a situation where someone needs prayer and the person choosing had the option between someone who resembled Sis. Nona Freeman or someone who resembled.......oh, take your pick.......Tammy Faye Baker or Beth Moore or Stormy O'Martian or.......well, you get the picture.

Of course, the typical liberal spin has turned it into something different as seen by posts successive to yours.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Oh please......first off you are trying to say that just because someone doesn't "look" PC they can't reach God? That's just nuts!

Wow! What a stretch!! Or, should I say "liberal slant" or "leftist twist"?

Read what I posted and quit arguing with yourself.

Originally Posted by rrford

Uhm, what the scenario does not really tell is that a good many sinners have no idea how a conservative Pentecostal dresses. Only those who have been exposed to conservative Pentecost would know. With that in mind, I have to honestly say most folks in such a circumstance just want prayer, IMO.

Well, brother, it seems you have missed the specifics of the scenario, too. It's not about Pentecostal dress or knowing anything about it. It's about looking godly and, even moreso, UNworldly.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Wow! What a stretch!! Or, should I say "liberal slant" or "leftist twist"?

Read what I posted and quit arguing with yourself.



Well, brother, it seems you have missed the specifics of the scenario, too. It's not about Pentecostal dress or knowing anything about it. It's about looking godly and, even moreso, UNworldly.

I assure you I did not miss it. But be honest here. If someone is severely injured in a car accident and needs prayer, what are chances they are going to start judging how someone looks who offers prayer? You are trying to present a hypothetical that has little basis in reality, IMO.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

This is another false assumption in many believer's lives. The pastor will preach a standard, and the backslidden rebel will say that they have no conviction on that issue. They will claim it not as part of their personal convictions. But, in all essence, it is the attempt to rebel against the God given authority in the believer's life.

Nah it more like this......

This is another false assumption in many Pastors Beliefs.

The pastor will preach a standard, and the Church member is backsliden and rebellious when they have no conviction on that issue.

When the member claims it not as part of their personal convictions.

The Pastor believes it's rebellion against what the Pastor believes is his God given authority in the church members life.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Nah it more like this......

This is another false assumption in many Pastors Beliefs.

The pastor will preach a standard, and the Church member is backsliden and rebellious when they have no conviction on that issue.

When the member claims it not as part of their personal convictions.

The Pastor believes it's rebellion against what the Pastor believes is his God given authority in the church members life.

Seems like both are right and both are wrong. (But of course, Coop is all right.)

[Brother Price]

Lord help ya Coop if you stand before the throne one day with this attitude. If God has set a pastor over you, don't you think you should obey that pastor's teachings? Or, are you now among those who think they need no one but themselves to teach what the Bible says?

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by rrford

I assure you I did not miss it. But be honest here. If someone is severely injured in a car accident and needs prayer, what are chances they are going to start judging how someone looks who offers prayer? You are trying to present a hypothetical that has little basis in reality, IMO.

From my perspective, you missed it as did a few others.

No, the scenario is not perfect and may never happen. But, the point is that the world does, in fact, recognize the difference between godly and not godly. They might use terms like "prudish" or "old fashioned" or "holier-than-thou", but they do recognize a difference.

I'll give you 100 people and put Beth Moore next to Sis. Nona Freeman and we'll see how many choose Sis. Freeman as they one they'd want to pray for them. What do you think the odds are that Ms. Moore would get more than a few who'd pick her?