((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by LordChocolate

If shoemake is a conservative, I am Hilary Clinton.

Pleased to meet you Mrs. Clinton! LOL!! things have changed in the last 5 to 10 years. I'm not sure what your reference point is but they definitely are a conservative church at this point. (Depending of course on your definition of conservative!)

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

DD,

I have no intention of questioning either your pedigree or your right to a personal opinion as to the definition of "moderate", liberal, con, or ultra-con.

And you are correct, unfortunately everything said between Thad and I was not listed on the forum. My bad. But not going to re-open at this point.

The conversation was started about the leadership. Thad said things specifically to evoke a response. He did. He knows the leadership is moderate. I cannot claim to know every single saint at PL and how they dress outside church. For that matter, with several hundred members, it is impossible to even know everyone here.

However, I know the platform standards at CoC, are moderate as far as UPCI standards. No earrings, no pants (on women), no makeup, no jewelery, hair put up etc etc.

So yes I stand by the "moderate" statement. And yes you are certainly entitled to your observation that this just might not be holy enough for some farther west.

On this we are in complete agreement!!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Dora

Quality men behaving like two-year-olds!

Taking their marbles and stomping off in a HUFF!!!

Thoroughly DISGUSTED!!!

Did you feel that way about the men who left over the affirmation statement passing in 92?

Why are you disgusted? These men are very conservative. They are the very conservative of an already very conservative religious sect.

They have been unhappy for years and have felt for years that the UPC was "going liberal". Since things like motions with music, video screens, and colored lights are all "liberal" to them they have had plenty to whine about.

Now that they have decided to do what they have been leading up to for years why characterize them the way ou did?

The libs had full right to leave in 92 over the AS and these preachers have a right to leave over the TV issue. Organizations like the UPC are tools of men used to further the gospel. There is nothing sacred about the UPC itself. Men are free to join another or start another org. when the one they are a part of no longer reflects their positions.

[retsambeW]

Originally Posted by CC1

Did you feel that way about the men who left over the affirmation statement passing in 92?

Why are you disgusted? These men are very conservative. They are the very conservative of an already very conservative religious sect.

They have been unhappy for years and have felt for years that the UPC was "going liberal". Since things like motions with music, video screens, and colored lights are all "liberal" to them they have had plenty to whine about.

Now that they have decided to do what they have been leading up to for years why characterize them the way ou did?

The libs had full right to leave in 92 over the AS and these preachers have a right to leave over the TV issue. Organizations like the UPC are tools of men used to further the gospel. There is nothing sacred about the UPC itself. Men are free to join another or start another org. when the one they are a part of no longer reflects their positions.

CC, that was brilliant. I appreciate your assesment of the matter.

BTW, I regret we missed each other a few weeks back. Jill and I and Joel had some excellent fellowship over an excellent meal.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I don't think that was exactly what Steadfast said.

You better go back and re-read.

You're right. And we should do this together; but first remember- Steadfast himself is not the source of the information. Steadfast is merely reporting what he was told. I take no issue with Steadfast's perspective. I am questioning the motive behind what he was told.

Originally Posted by Steadfast

I just preached a very unique conference last week with two great Men of God. On one hand I had one of the Assistant General Superintendants and on the other hand I had one of the Coordinators of the Tulsa meeting.

For all the talk about 'recruiting' and 'stealing members' and 'unethical' that abounds I have to tell you that this isn't the spirit of the coordinators at all! They are kind gentlemen that are simply providing a grass roots meeting to discuss what steps to take to maintain an Apostolic atmosphere without the diminishing of Apostolic distinctives.

I spent several days with them and - AMAZINGLY - not one time did they ask me to come to the meeting (I'm personal friends with most of the names on the mail out and have never been asked or recruited to come) or to drag others with me if I should decide to go.

We had several candid conversations about recent events and I asked the coordinator point blank if the meeting was going to be a 'preaching' type meeting, a bloodbath or what... only to be told that what they want to do is NOTHING that would require anybody to leave the UPC. They simply want to talk options, hear suggestions and reiterate our goals as Apostolics.

I know this will seriously upset some people to know that it will neither be a...

• Gripe session
• UPC bashing meeting
• Flashback to the vicious splits of days gone by or
• A 'let's march out and make a statement' type meeting.

It's a meeting to gather suggestions and find a way to network men together who have begun to lose faith in the direction the Apostolic movement as a whole is going.

And, for what it's worth, I've talked to many who are involved or going to this meeting and have yet to hear any viciousness in their voices. Just a little sadness for the most part.

Thus, what most have surmised, heard gossiped about or interjected their own fabrications about... simply isn't true.

I've shrunk his font size and added underlines to what I understood to be pertinent. The bolded words are from the original.

Will membership in this organization require men to leave the UPC? Why the organization of a competing Bible Quizzing program, of all things, if they are not interested in a wholly different org?

[gulfcoastbrother]

you know what's really interesting, one of the men on the Tulsa committee has his brother-in-law sneak DVD's to him...i know this directly from the brother-in-law and am 150% sure and would stake my life on it....talk about hypocrisy.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by harleypreacher

Somebody changed the website, names have disappeared and TLC name is gone. Are they all running scared now that they have been exposed?

Ah, Oh, another case of premature.......opps, annoucement! Get your minds out of the gutter!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by gulfcoastbrother

you know what's really interesting, one of the men on the Tulsa committee has his brother-in-law sneak DVD's to him...i know this directly from the brother-in-law and am 150% sure and would stake my life on it....talk about hypocrisy.

DVD's of what? General conference?

[gulfcoastbrother]

No, he wasn't watching DVD's from General Conference...

[gulfcoastbrother]

My uncle, who pastors a very large liberal UPCI church and is good friends with TLC, told me that TLC never agreed to go to Tulsa and doesn't agree with the ultra cons...