They have no shame - Page 22

Sean · #**211** 09-24-2015, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

This from a man who has claimed that he has translated the Bible into an Apostolic version, while ignoring facts that have been presented here, and continuing to believe 10% mandatory tithing that is without basis in NT writing, and condemning anyone who disagrees... hmm.

Yes, FZ has some big time doctrinal problems, to say the least.

KeptByTheWord · #**212** 09-24-2015, 09:43 AM

One more thing that may not have been addressed yet in this thread is this scripture right here:

Heb. 6:1-2 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

The doctrines of Christ, which have been laid... and after we stand on those doctrines, we can go on unto perfection. The doctrine of tithing is not included in this list.

I guess the writer of Hebrews didn't get the memo about the importance of giving your 10% mandatory tithe in order to be perfected in Christ.

Sean · #**213** 09-24-2015, 09:56 AM

Mandatory giving is a BIG TIME stumblingblock to the saints and the sinners that are viewing the churches.

My 1st pastor told me I must agree to tithing to be baptized.

What a struggle that became as a sinner, repenting of his sins!

That church drained nearly every penny of my minimum wage income in those days.

I was even required to give, up to 1/4th of my income in offerings.(yes Apostolic)

These guys do the same thing, but baptize you 1st, then the taxes follow.

houston · #**214** 09-24-2015, 12:50 PM

The pastor demanded 15%. Ten for the pastor. Five for the church. I always felt that those numbers were backward.

Sean · #**215** 09-24-2015, 01:22 PM

Howbout 1 for the pastor and 14 for the church...that is Biblical.

votivesoul · #**216** 09-24-2015, 01:29 PM

To me, the biggest issue is how the church is being sold short on a blessed opportunity. When a saint is told to give 10% of their income, many times, but not always, that's all they give. It becomes a rote act and ritual, and the Lord is hard pressed to get through to them when He calls them to give more.

The Church of Jesus Christ began with the believers having all things in common. That is our heritage as Apostolic believers. Having all things in common is just as much Acts 2 as any other part we love.

To require 10% of people is to LOWER the standard from all things in common, to just a meager sacrifice. If anyone requires your shirt, give to him your cloak also.

When this standard of giving is taught and maintained as the standard, and the idea of 10% finally disappears, the church will explode and people will come in droves to hear the Gospel message from people who are actually the REAL DEAL, living out the most radical, fundamental truths of the New Covenant.

Give and it shall be given, pressed down and overflowing. Imagine a church that doesn't have a mortgage, or a parsonage, or a big salary to cover, that can give all that it has to the impoverished members of its assembly, along with feeding the hungry, paying the rent and utilities, and helping in any other way financially, the lost, in their community---WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!

When Jesus fed the multitudes, many of them kept coming back only for the food, but in the process, they still got to spend time in the presence of the Bread of Life and hear the Message of Salvation.

We might get those who keep coming back for what the church can give, but hey, it still gives them a chance to hear the Message of Salvation one more time. Why not give it a go?

I started a community service project free of charge one summer and went about the community doing free labor for the poor and struggling. In two weeks, the church added 14 souls. That's daily one soul per one day of community labor.

It works, brothers!

Sean · #**217** 09-24-2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Mandatory giving is a BIG TIME stumblingblock to the saints and the sinners that are viewing the churches.

My 1st pastor told me I must agree to tithing to be baptized.

What a struggle that became as a sinner, repenting of his sins!

That church drained nearly every penny of my minimum wage income in those days.

I was even required to give, up to 1/4th of my income in offerings.(yes Apostolic)

These guys do the same thing, but baptize you 1st, then the taxes follow.

Brother Aaron, 1/4th of my income was all I had....I soon LOST all I had after that(after 2 years)!

What a mess that was. If it werent for being slain in the Spirit at a friends' house miraculously(before conversion), I would have NEVER made it this far!

God is real, but these tithe teaching churches are a racket.(they sell salvation)

Rudy · #**218** 09-24-2015, 02:06 PM

Well, I would like to relocate and assist the body in a spirit filled church. Where praise, worship, healings, in filling of the ghost, people oriented assembly. The last church I attended started with 18 people. Became the fastest growing church in Indiana. It was just fantastic!!! Then it happened---MONEY!!

Not sure how much longer my health will hold up but I'm still here.

Sean · #**219** 09-24-2015, 02:16 PM

Yes, I probably heard it 1000 times, a minister becomes a Baalamite.(ministry for $$$)

KeptByTheWord · #**220** 09-24-2015, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

To me, the biggest issue is how the church is being sold short on a blessed opportunity. When a saint is told to give 10% of their income, many times, but not always, that's all they give. It becomes a rote act and ritual, and the Lord is hard pressed to get through to them when He calls them to give more.

The Church of Jesus Christ began with the believers having all things in common. That is our heritage as Apostolic believers. Having all things in common is just as much Acts 2 as any other part we love.

To require 10% of people is to LOWER the standard from all things in common, to just a meager sacrifice. If anyone requires your shirt, give to him your cloak also.

When this standard of giving is taught and maintained as the standard, and the idea of 10% finally disappears, the church will explode and people will come in droves to hear the Gospel message from people who are actually the REAL DEAL, living out the most radical, fundamental truths of the New Covenant.

Give and it shall be given, pressed down and overflowing. Imagine a church that doesn't have a mortgage, or a parsonage, or a big salary to cover, that can give all that it has to the impoverished members of its assembly, along with feeding the hungry, paying the rent and utilities, and helping in any other way financially, the lost, in their community---WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!

When Jesus fed the multitudes, many of them kept coming back only for the food, but in the process, they still got to spend time in the presence of the Bread of Life and hear the Message of Salvation.

We might get those who keep coming back for what the church can give, but hey, it still gives them a chance to hear the Message of Salvation one more time. Why not give it a go?

I started a community service project free of charge one summer and went about the community doing free labor for the poor and struggling. In two weeks, the church added 14 souls. That's daily one soul per one day of community labor.

It works, brothers!

Praise God Bro. Votive! Let go and let God! I agree... the 10% mandatory has convinced people that is "all" they have to give. What nonsense! Sometimes God may ask for all you have. Sometimes the Lord has blessed us, then He turned around and asked us to give all that we were just blessed with. We did, and God has never let us down. You just can't outgive God!

Some time ago, we were going through a difficult time financially. Out of the blue, someone contacted me wanting our address because they wanted to bless us. I truly expected nothing. However, the mail came with a check in the exact amount that we needed. However, as I looked at that amount, I knew about another situation where someone was in need as well. I cashed the check and prayed. I knew what the Lord had asked us to do. I gave it all away. We passed it on, and gave it to someone who needed it even more than we. During that time, we were able to witness and bless this person, and God greatly multiplied those $$.

You just can NEVER outgive God. Don't be surprised if in your giving, God blesses you, and then asks you to give it back. Don't hold back. God's 100% giving plan works, and you can trust it!

People.... the 10% tithe is holding back what God desires to do! Throw that damnable tithe doctrine out the window, and trust God for the rest! You are holding onto the stingy 10% when the Lord is calling us to live with our hands open, and ready to give, whatever He asks of us.

You want the windows of God to open? Trust God. Put Him to the test! I challenge every one of you ministers reading this, who are living on the 10% salary. If you are called to the ministry, you are called to serve, and you absolutely can live of the gospel... and the Lord is able to bless. But quit trusting in the 10%, and instead trust God's 100% giving program... it's a much better one, and the one that got results in the NT church!!