The Future of the Oneness Pentecostal Movement - Page 21

chaotic_resolve · #**201** 07-15-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamgar1

The ALJC seems to be flailing as well.

Does anyone have some numbers on the ALJC as were posted on the UPC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamgar1

How can the organization attract young ministers? Is there anything that can be done to reverse the trend?

My father has been a minister with the UPCI for 51 years. HQ sent him a nice little certificate last year to commemorate 50 years. My brother is also a licensed minister with the UPCI. I am not a licensed minister, nor do I ever desire to be licensed with the UPCI.

The UPCI has changed a lot since its inception as a fellowship of believers, to now being almost a big-brother, governmental organization.

Speaking for myself, there's no way I'm interested in becoming licensed in an organization that would do its best to tie my hands in evangelism, and give only politicized support - which means getting district financial support based on if the minister who holds the strings agrees with my standards, etc.

It's no wonder that the younger generation of ministers are shying away from becoming licensed with the UPCI.

When standards are such a polarizing issue that differ between each church...

When we have to ask big-brother for permission to advertise on television...

When district positions have become so political, and the ministers in those positions almost more politically-minded than a Congressman.

No thanks. I'd rather not have a migrane dealing with that junk. I know too many good ministers that are dealing more junk with their district than being able to do what they've been called to do.

#**202** 07-15-2007, 12:03 PM

Two prevaling corruptions:

1. Ecclesiastical politics.

2. Comforts of unprecedented prosperity.

Equating to the idol of "SELF" firmly ensconced in the "Holy Place," the church. Thus, mixed worship prevais from pulpit to pew.

Elihu · #**203** 07-15-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

Does anyone have some numbers on the ALJC as were posted on the UPC?

My father has been a minister with the UPCI for 51 years. HQ sent him a nice little certificate last year to commemorate 50 years. My brother is also a licensed minister with the UPCI. I am not a licensed minister, nor do I ever desire to be licensed with the UPCI.

The UPCI has changed a lot since its inception as a fellowship of believers, to now being almost a big-brother, governmental organization.

Speaking for myself, there's no way I'm interested in becoming licensed in an organization that would do its best to tie my hands in evangelism, and give only politicized support - which means getting district financial support based on if the minister who holds the strings agrees with my standards, etc.

It's no wonder that the younger generation of ministers are shying away from becoming licensed with the UPCI.

When standards are such a polarizing issue that differ between each church...

When we have to ask big-brother for permission to advertise on television...

When district positions have become so political, and the ministers in those positions almost more politically-minded than a Congressman.

No thanks. I'd rather not have a migrane dealing with that junk. I know too many good ministers that are dealing more junk with their district than being able to do what they've been called to do.

But there have been no change in the bylaws. Some would say it has always been this way. Why have the numbers reduced in the last decade? What is different now?

Steve Epley · #**204** 07-15-2007, 01:20 PM

Could it be since America is more materialistic that many young men are more career minded than kingdom minded? An ambitious intelligent young man can apply his skills and be financially secure in a few years. While preaching might seem like the lottery to some????? Years ago thc church was mostly blue-collar so a guy financially could do as well or better preaching but not so today in most cases. AND earthly minded folks have produced earthly minded children whereas the past generations were kingdom minded and produced kingdom minded children. Just a thought. Not many folks see "denying yourself-taking up the cross and following me very attractive."

Newman · #**205** 07-15-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamgar1

But there have been no change in the bylaws. Some would say it has always been this way. Why have the numbers reduced in the last decade? What is different now?

INTERNET!

Life insurance rates began falling when the AIDS Epidemic was in full swing... A seeming contradiction. But the reality was that knowledge of the various rates had a greater impact on the bottom line for life insurance companies that AIDS did.

Steve Epley · #**206** 07-15-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

INTERNET!

Life insurance rates began falling when the AIDS Epidemic was in full swing... A seeming contradiction. But the reality was that knowledge of the various rates had a greater impact on the bottom line for life insurance companies that AIDS did.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

Please tell me what you are saying. Remember Mrs. attorney us backwoods folks.

Elihu · #**207** 07-15-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Could it be since America is more materialistic that many young men are more career minded than kingdom minded? An ambitious intelligent young man can apply his skills and be financially secure in a few years. While preaching might seem like the lottery to some????? Years ago thc church was mostly blue-collar so a guy financially could do as well or better preaching but not so today in most cases. AND earthly minded folks have produced earthly minded children whereas the past generations were kingdom minded and produced kingdom minded children. Just a thought. Not many folks see "denying yourself-taking up the cross and following me very attractive."

I know of very few men of any age that want to plant new works without help from other churches and move-ins. It is nearly impossible to ensure success without those two components.

The trouble is, there are many elders who will not share resources or people. I am not saying that things should just be handed to new church plants, but I am saying that if we are going to beg men to go we should at least be willing to assist them. This means putting our money where our mouth is.

Don't guilt men into going and then hang them out to dry. This is why the majority of church plants wither and die.

Newman · #**208** 07-15-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Could it be since America is more materialistic that many young men are more career minded than kingdom minded? An ambitious intelligent young man can apply his skills and be financially secure in a few years. While preaching might seem like the lottery to some????? Years ago thc church was mostly blue-collar so a guy financially could do as well or better preaching but not so today in most cases.

I have a cousin who is a doctor. He told my aunt that the internet means that he now has to contend with many patients who have been researching their diagnosis on the internet. They don't accept his say so just because. For better and worse; that is the same reality that confronts the church today.

Steve Epley · #**209** 07-15-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamgar1

I know of very few men of any age that want to plant new works without help from other churches and move-ins. It is nearly impossible to ensure success without those two components.

The trouble is, there are many elders who will not share resources or people. I am not saying that things should just be handed to new church plants, but I am saying that if we are going to beg men to go we should at least be willing to assist them. This means putting our money where our mouth is.

Don't guilt men into going and then hang them out to dry. This is why the majority of church plants wither and die.

I agree.