left upci yr ago and still messed up

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by Amanah

maybe I should say in my case I think the people in authority cared, still do care about me.

But you are right, they way we obeyed them was . . . I don't know how to say it I have such mixed feeling about it.

I still think that our passion and zeal for God brought along with it a deep move of God. I don't know how to untangle the single minded devotion to God that I felt back then from the results of that devotion: Many souls coming into the kingdom, being baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost.

I'm still confused about how you get the results we got, without doing things they way we did them.

I'm read these boards and people talk about the grace of God, and how it's ok to do many of the things that we were taught not to do.

If you drink and smoke and immerse yourself in movies and entertainment, and neglect prayer, bible, fasting, church, and devotion to God, can you still have the same results?

does grace mean abandoning all holiness standards, and spiritual disciplines, and church attendance?

Sometimes I feel like there are too many gray areas, and not enough clarity. Sometimes I read this board and leave with a heavy heart because I fear we are leaving something precious behind but if I try to define it, it's going to be lost in the words that I use.

I agree 100%. I see people leave, tell me they are free from legalism - all the while entertaining themselves with shows/movies filled with subtle and not-so-subtle anti-Christian/pro-world system themes and ideologies. They found grace at the church around the corner, but they also found (some years later) out they're about to be a grandparent out of wedlock. (yes it happens in UPC churches).

So many make walking with Jesus more about checklists and performance, not relationship. It feels like work, so when they leave, grace is used as a landing spot for for their conscience. Rarely do people truly get closer to Him when they 'flee legalism'.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by HolyFire

I agree 100%. I see people leave, tell me they are free from legalism - all the while entertaining themselves with shows/movies filled with subtle and not-so-subtle anti-Christian/pro-world system themes and ideologies. They found grace at the church around the corner, but they also found (some years later) out they're about to be a grandparent out of wedlock. (yes it happens in UPC churches). .

there is nothing wrong with entertainment, you should read about the festivals and such the jews did for the Lord.can it be abused yea just as much as the internet can be. I left the bondage of legalism from the upci, and i have to say I do miss the people but i dont miss the standards of man.

How can you preach freedom in Christ when your in bondage to mans standards. Look at the book called practical holiness from david bernard. (the book is nothing but rules and guidelines made by a man, just like the pharasees would do in Jesus day)

To be Holy is to be seperated. However to Be seperated is not nothing you do. It Is God who seperates you. Israel was Holy To God because He seperated it from the World.

No facial hair,
Brother why are you in Blue jeans, Do you have a suit?
Wedding rings? what there pagen
She spoke in tongues yet she keeps comming to church with her pants on.
Man they cut her little girls hair..

well if your happy with what you have Holyfire more power to you. just dont turn your standards into a judging stick of another mans rightousness.

So many make walking with Jesus more about checklists and performance, not relationship. It feels like work, so when they leave, grace is used as a landing spot for for their conscience. Rarely do people truly get closer to Him when they 'flee legalism'.

Thats your personal opinion which i would state is a lie cause I know I did. I was held back because of mans standards. I couldnt preach unless i conformed to mans standards. I couldnt teach. You better believe I grew. It was sad i could preach in other peoples Pullpits but i couldnt get behind my own churches pullpit. cause i would not confirm to the pastors legalist ways. and i told him it was legalism..

Its a bunch of bull to turn a blind eye when we know that legalism is happening. Legalism will choke the relationship out of you. cause if you cant fit in then there is no exceptance from the body of believers....

Now those petty things that was a stumbling block to me is no longer there.

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by acerrak

there is nothing wrong with entertainment, you should read about the festivals and such the jews did for the Lord.can it be abused yea just as much as the internet can be. I left the bondage of legalism from the upci, and i have to say I do miss the people but i dont miss the standards of man.

How can you preach freedom in Christ when your in bondage to mans standards. Look at the book called practical holiness from david bernard. (the book is nothing but rules and guidelines made by a man, just like the pharasees would do in Jesus day)

To be Holy is to be seperated. However to Be seperated is not nothing you do. It Is God who seperates you. Israel was Holy To God because He seperated it from the World.

No facial hair,
Brother why are you in Blue jeans, Do you have a suit?
Wedding rings? what there pagen
She spoke in tongues yet she keeps comming to church with her pants on.
Man they cut her little girls hair..

well if your happy with what you have Holyfire more power to you. just dont turn your standards into a judging stick of another mans rightousness.



Thats your personal opinion which i would state is a lie cause I know I did. I was held back because of mans standards. I couldnt preach unless i conformed to mans standards. I couldnt teach. You better believe I grew. It was sad i could preach in other peoples Pullpits but i couldnt get behind my own churches pullpit. cause i would not confirm to the pastors legalist ways. and i told him it was legalism..

Its a bunch of bull to turn a blind eye when we know that legalism is happening. Legalism will choke the relationship out of you. cause if you cant fit in then there is no exceptance from the body of believers....

Now those petty things that was a stumbling block to me is no longer there.

I'm a minister, I am used in the gifts, and I wear jeans to church about half the time. Not a problem at my church.

Facial hair is not an issue at my church as far as attendance, ministers no. Its a social thing. Others in the church, that's fine.

I don't judge others by my measuring stick. I don't even own a stick. I own a plumbline, the Word of God, to see how I measure up (and I fail horribly every day).

My problem is with cable television, not the apparatus it comes through. Cable/movies are mainly the spokesperson of this world's aganda and I'll have no part of it. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus (Phil 2:5). Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I don't have a problem with entertainment in itself. I have a 2 year old daughter and two dogs that keep me entertained. I have friends that I enjoy spending time with. However, I don't dull my spiritual senses with worldy programs, or books that don't edify. I don't listen to music that doesn't have anything to do with Him. I used to do all of the above, and it didn't build me up at all. His voice becomes dim, my spirit becomes muddy and blah. I don't care to know about all that, I want to know Him! These are lifestyle changes I made, no one had to tell me, or threaten me with hell.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by HolyFire

I'm a minister, I am used in the gifts, and I wear jeans to church about half the time. Not a problem at my church.

Facial hair is not an issue at my church as far as attendance, ministers no. Its a social thing. Others in the church, that's fine.

I don't judge others by my measuring stick. I don't even own a stick. I own a plumbline, the Word of God, to see how I measure up (and I fail horribly every day).

My problem is with cable television, not the apparatus it comes through. Cable/movies are mainly the spokesperson of this world's aganda and I'll have no part of it. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus (Phil 2:5). Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I don't have a problem with entertainment in itself. I have a 2 year old daughter and two dogs that keep me entertained. I have friends that I enjoy spending time with. However, I don't dull my spiritual senses with worldy programs, or books that don't edify. I don't listen to music that doesn't have anything to do with Him. I used to do all of the above, and it didn't build me up at all. His voice becomes dim, my spirit becomes muddy and blah. I don't care to know about all that, I want to know Him! These are lifestyle changes I made, no one had to tell me, or threaten me with hell.

HolyFire, as holy as you are how in the world can you allow a computer in your home? It is worse than a cable system, it is a source of anything that your little heart can desire! And it's in your home??? Your children may learn how to use it and look at something that you wouldn't want them to see. Oh, yes, you can block, but kids now days can unblock faster than you can block. "Oh consistency, where art thou?" And by the way, is the computer not more so the spokesperson of this world's agenda? Come on HolyFire!

Been Thinkin

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

HolyFire, as holy as you are how in the world can you allow a computer in your home? It is worse than a cable system, it is a source of anything that your little heart can desire! And it's in your home??? Your children may learn how to use it and look at something that you wouldn't want them to see. Oh, yes, you can block, but kids now days can unblock faster than you can block. "Oh consistency, where art thou?" And by the way, is the computer not more so the spokesperson of this world's agenda? Come on HolyFire!

Been Thinkin

Never said I was holier than anyone else. Sorry if you took it that way.

As to the computer, as of right now there is worth in it. YouTube for sermons, NetFlix (I watch what and when I want - no waiting on a time or channel) for Sesame Street and documentaries. AFF so I can have these discussions with you. Cable is the mouthpiece of Hollywood/Madison Ave. and there is hardly a channel on there worth watching anymore.

As far as blocking stuff, if I block something it will stay blocked, I have enough experience fixing computers (and my Bro-in-law is an IT director) to make sure of it. Plus, the computer is in the living room, out in the open.

You completely missed the spirit of my post above. I'm hungry for Christ.

Here's my last little comment about cable television. I saw this in a newspaper and tore it out, keeping it in my wallet as a reminder I'm responsible for someone else's life and walk with Jesus Christ. It fit my situation as I have a 20-month old in the house who is now talking in sentences (sorta).

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by HolyFire

Never said I was holier than anyone else. Sorry if you took it that way.

As to the computer, as of right now there is worth in it. YouTube for sermons, NetFlix (I watch what and when I want - no waiting on a time or channel) for Sesame Street and documentaries. AFF so I can have these discussions with you. Cable is the mouthpiece of Hollywood/Madison Ave. and there is hardly a channel on there worth watching anymore.

As far as blocking stuff, if I block something it will stay blocked, I have enough experience fixing computers (and my Bro-in-law is an IT director) to make sure of it. Plus, the computer is in the living room, out in the open.

You completely missed the spirit of my post above. I'm hungry for Christ.

Here's my last little comment about cable television. I saw this in a newspaper and tore it out, keeping it in my wallet as a reminder I'm responsible for someone else's life and walk with Jesus Christ. It fit my situation as I have a 20-month old in the house who is now talking in sentences (sorta).

HolyFire,
I didn't say you were holier than anyone else. I said, "As holy as you are....!" Is there "ANY" worth in the TV? And how do you know what's on the channels? Besides that, you don't have to have cable to get TV.

And believe me, I don't really care whether you have TV, cable or ten computers. I just get tired of the inconsistency of some talking about how bad TV is how they would never have one in their home and then they have a computer which has more filth available on it than a TV ever has.

How would you compare TV — Computer? Can you see folks having open sex on TV with no holds barred? You can on a computer. Can a child contact someone on a TV and talk with perverts and child molesters? You can on a computer.

The point I'm trying to make is be consistent! You can block channels on TV too. What is the computer the mouth piece for?

Again, whatever you choose to believe, have in your home, and be a part of is your business. Only when you start posting things on AFF do you open it for discussion. And that is simply what I am doing. Discussing something you posted.

Thanks and have a great day.

Been Thinkin

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

HolyFire,
I didn't say you were holier than anyone else. I said, "As holy as you are....!" Is there "ANY" worth in the TV?

And believe me, I don't really care whether you have TV, cable or ten computers. I just get tired of the inconsistency of some talking about how bad TV is how they would never have one in their home and then they have a computer which has more filth available on it than a TV ever has.

How would you compare TV — Computer? Can you see folks having open sex on TV with no holds barred? You can on a computer. Can a child contact someone on a TV and talk with perverts and child molesters? You can on a computer.

The point I'm trying to make is be consistent! You can block channels on TV too. What is the computer the mouth piece for?

Again, whatever you choose to believe, have in your home, and be a part of is your business. Only when you start posting things on AFF do you open it for discussion. And that is simply what I am doing. Discussing something you posted.

Thanks and have a great day.

Been Thinkin

I understand what you mean about consistency. The Net, I choose the when, the where, the how. That and other practical reasons, as in, have you tried finding a job without the internet? Yeesh. As I type this my 20 month old is fighting sleep while watching Elmo. ABC's and 123's. I know they had Katie Perry on once, but on Netflix I control what's on. Documentaries, etc.

My spiritual stance also crosses over to books as well. I hardly read fiction anymore, as most conflict with Christ and His message. Cussing, killing or making entertainment out of a sin Christ died to erase from our souls. I understand we'll see things in our daily lives, Christ equipped us for that, but I don't go looking for it.

[tv1a]

Internet is a convenience. You can bank without the internet. There are plenty of jobs who do not require using the internet.

Originally Posted by HolyFire

I understand what you mean about consistency. The Net, I choose the when, the where, the how. That and other practical reasons, as in, have you tried finding a job without the internet? Yeesh. As I type this my 20 month old is fighting sleep while watching Elmo. ABC's and 123's. I know they had Katie Perry on once, but on Netflix I control what's on. Documentaries, etc.

My spiritual stance also crosses over to books as well. I hardly read fiction anymore, as most conflict with Christ and His message. Cussing, killing or making entertainment out of a sin Christ died to erase from our souls. I understand we'll see things in our daily lives, Christ equipped us for that, but I don't go looking for it.

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Internet is a convenience. You can bank without the internet. There are plenty of jobs who do not require using the internet.

Convenience, yes. However, I couldn't have gotten the job I have now otherwise. We only accept resumes online at Hostess Brands. The HR guy is a regional HR guy.

I don't bank on the Net, however, I do check my balance using it (convenience).

[acerrak]

tv is a medium it has good and bad points like anything else. TV has made my little 3 year old child a little einstien. We let her watch kids shows that are designed to better there knowledge and social development. I have 3 kids The first 2 was raised with out cable as you say. My oldest was actually behind in school also both of them needed rescourse and speech.


My little 3year old could have a conversation with you at the age of 2 what was the difference? Intellegent kid shows. You forget brother anything can be destructive to a person not just TV . the internet 2. That is the biggest place to get porn and its right at your finger tips. all you have todo is type google then type porn and "WAL-LA" there is naked pictures galore.

tv works the same way You have to see what is comming on. There is also lock outs and passcodes to block channels. You or anyone else with out a tv doesnt make you any more spiritual than those with a t.v

As for your declaring your self a minister with Gifts. arnt we all? I minister i have gifts? should you now comform to my view??

it gets me the upci .. only sinners go to the movies.. i remember we had a women at church go see one of those twilight movies and she posted it on face book. People at church called her a devil worshipper................ Her reply its fictional dont you understand what fictional is. Im not worshipping any of it.


Then the pastor got on there and talked about morals.. Yes Pants facial hair was a issue in my church. there is no one on the platform in such away. I have left and now attend a non denominational trinitarian pentacostal church and I love it. same Spirit same outpours of the Spirit same Gifts... alot of less legalism