I can accept this explanation. But those that say that the Holy Spirit did not reside in some ... like the psalmist who asked God not to take his Holy Spirit from him ....
Luke the same writer of the Gospel of Luke and Acts .... uses the same Greek phaseology to describe the filling of Elizabeth ... Zacharias ... and those in the upper room ... no difference ....
What is the point you are making about Elizabeth and her being filled with the Holy Spirit?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
I always had read this verse in Spanish ... which in the Reina Valera does not say the that the Holy Ghost was not given ... but that the Holy Ghost had not come ... of course this is true because Jesus still dwelt among them in his fleshly form.
After trying to find the word given in the orginal Greek text ... I could not find it for John 7:39
After futher research .... I found this:
The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible
for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given];
the word "given" is not in the original text; but is very properly supplied, as it is in the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Persic versions. The Arabic version renders it, "for the Holy Ghost was not yet come";
he was; he was in being as a divine person, equal with the Father and Son, so he was from everlasting; and he had been bestowed in his grace upon the Old Testament saints, and rested in his gifts upon the prophets of that dispensation; but, as the Jews themselves confess F6,
``after the death of the latter prophets, Haggai, Zachariah, and Malachi, the Holy Ghost removed from Israel.''
And they expressly say, be was not there in the time of the second temple. Maimonides says F7,
``they made the Urim and Thummim in the second temple, to complete the eight garments (of the priests) though they did not inquire by them; and why did they not inquire by them? because the Holy Ghost was not there; and every priest that does not speak by the Holy Ghost, and the Shekinah, does not dwell upon him, they do not inquire by him.''
They observe F8 there were five things in the first temple which were not in the second, and they are these,
``the ark with the mercy seat, and cherubim, the fire (from heaven), and the Shekinah, (vdwqh xwrw) , "and the Holy Ghost", and the Urim and Thummim.''
Now, though he had removed, he was to return again; but as yet the time was not come, at least for the more plentiful donation of him:
I do not have any scriptures for this, as they are just thoughts right now. But could it be that those within the old Testament received Gods Spirit as being anointed for a purpose, but for the New Testament Church, that same Spirit comes to "reside" within us.
Theirs was a one time shot, whereas we receive a continual flow of the river of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
It is simple Bro. Scott, men leak and have to be refilled. We are mistaken to see the HGB as salvation, when it fact it is the empowerment of the believer.
I always had read this verse in Spanish ... which in the Reina Valera does not say the that the Holy Ghost was not given ... but that the Holy Ghost had not come ... of course this is true because Jesus still dwelt among them in his fleshly form.
After trying to find the word given in the orginal Greek text ... I could not find it for John 7:39
After futher research .... I found this:
The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible
for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given];
the word "given" is not in the original text; but is very properly supplied, as it is in the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Persic versions. The Arabic version renders it, "for the Holy Ghost was not yet come";
he was; he was in being as a divine person, equal with the Father and Son, so he was from everlasting; and he had been bestowed in his grace upon the Old Testament saints, and rested in his gifts upon the prophets of that dispensation; but, as the Jews themselves confess F6,
``after the death of the latter prophets, Haggai, Zachariah, and Malachi, the Holy Ghost removed from Israel.''
And they expressly say, be was not there in the time of the second temple. Maimonides says F7,
``they made the Urim and Thummim in the second temple, to complete the eight garments (of the priests) though they did not inquire by them; and why did they not inquire by them? because the Holy Ghost was not there; and every priest that does not speak by the Holy Ghost, and the Shekinah, does not dwell upon him, they do not inquire by him.''
They observe F8 there were five things in the first temple which were not in the second, and they are these,
``the ark with the mercy seat, and cherubim, the fire (from heaven), and the Shekinah, (vdwqh xwrw) , "and the Holy Ghost", and the Urim and Thummim.''
Now, though he had removed, he was to return again; but as yet the time was not come, at least for the more plentiful donation of him:
Daniel, you are to be applauded for speaking truth here. I have always considered this text referring to Jesus' remarks to his disciples in John 16:8.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
I think for the sake of clarity, most people tend to view the gospels as a chronoligical account of what transpired written in real time, when in actuallity the Gospels were written years later. The comment...the Holy Ghost had not been given was written as an after thought.
Daniel, you are to be applauded for speaking truth here. I have always considered this text referring to Jesus' remarks to his disciples in John 16:8.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
I think for the sake of clarity, most people tend to view the gospels as a chronoligical account of what transpired written in real time, when in actuallity the Gospels were written years later. The comment...the Holy Ghost had not been given was written as an after thought.
Yes ... context is important and also not adding to the Word ...
the KJV in various instances is butchered by my PAJC friends because of it's language ... they have misinterpreted terms like remitted ... given ... converted in various scriptures as to align it to their doctrine.
the W & S crowd often forgets that filling/receiving/ the Holy Ghost is not simply an experience of speaking in tongues .... this is a manifestation ... but the Spirit of God has been moving througout time ... when it moved over the face of the waters ... dwelled within prophets and others in the OT and He dwells/makes residence in those that accept Him through faith in His Word - Jesus Christ.
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him
Romans 8;11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me" (John 15:4).
If you abide in My Word, then you are truly disciples of Mine" (John 8:31).
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in Him." John 6: 53-56
Mizpeh, Adino, in a thread called Sinful Union, spent a considerable amount of time explaining the problem 3 steppers face when faced w/ the dilemma of Cornelius and those in his household receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit if their sins have not be been remitted/forgiven/wipedaway/blotted .... which they believe can only happen in a properly administered water baptism.
Our reconciliation happens at the point of faith when our sins are wiped away upon belief and repentance ... Peter, the preacher at Pentecost, in Acts 2 preached this ..... :
Acts 3:19 ... Repent, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out"
Peter reiteates this in his preaching at Cornelius home
Acts 10
43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Immediately the baptism of the Holy Spirit fell upon a group that believed ... which again presents this dilemma of a sinful union if their sins had not been wiped away ... especially because most teach that unless one talks in tongues one is not fully justified, and that the Spirit of God has not made residence in the potential new convert's heart until this biblical and wonderful Spirit-initiated experience occurs.
The word "reconcilate" according to Webster's dictionary means "to restore a friendship. " The blood of Jesus restores our friendship to God. We were separated by sin. The blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ brings us back to the presence and person of God. Sin has been pardoned by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Roman 3:25 "Christ Jesus, whom God put forward (before the eyes of all) as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood (the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance he had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment."
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The following writer addresses some of the points I would like to make about the relationship between the blood, our faith in His sacrifice and resurrection and how it results in our regeration {New Birth} and our subsequent sanctification.
Power of the Blood in Redemption
A believer is purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 1:18-19 You must know (recognize)that you were redeemed (ransomed from the useless (fruitless) way of living inherited by tradition from (your forefather), not with corruptible things(such as) silver and gold, but (you were purchased with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah) like that of a (sacrificial) lamb without blemish or spot."
Power of Reconciliation through the Blood
The word "reconcilate" according to Webster's dictionary means "to restore a friendship. " The blood of Jesus restores our friendship to God. We were separated by sin. The blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ brings us back to the presence and person of God. Sin has been pardoned by the blood of Jesus Christ. Roman 3:25 "Christ Jesus, whom God put forward (before the eyes of all) as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood (the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance he had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment."
Power of Cleansing through the Blood
The cleansing removes the defilement of sin from our inner being. Cleansing removes the sin from the "old life" "The pollution of sin, on the other hand, is the sense of defilement and impurity which sin brings to our inner being, and it is with this that cleansing has to do." (Power in the Blood, pg 58) 1 John 1:7 Be if we (really) are living and walking in the Light, as He (Himself) is in the light, we have (true, unbroken) fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses (removes) us from all Sin and guilt (keeps us cleansed from sin in its forms and manifestations.)
Power of Sanctification through the Blood
Sanctification means union with God. God is completely holy and his holiness cannot bear sin. Sanctification is union with God through the blood of Jesus Christ. This union is willful separation of his people from sin and from the world. The followers of Jesus Christ must make a conscious decision to live apart from the world by not being active in worldly behaviors that set itself contrary to the Word of God. "Thus sanctification is fellowship with God and His dwelling in us. So it was necessary that God in Christ should take up His abode in the flesh and that the Holy Spirit should come to dwell in us. This is what sanctification means." P79, Power of the Blood
Power of Union with God Through the Blood
The followers of Jesus practices obedience to Jesus. A Christian's honest desire is not to sin. The flesh is still part of us and we will disobey. After the honest prayer of repentance, the blood will continue cleanse us of our sin. We can continue in fellowship with Jesus with a clean conscience. Our union with God is unbroken. Our union with Jesus is one of intimate dependence. The blood of Jesus gives us spiritual nourishment.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in Him." John 6: 53-56
Daniel, you are to be applauded for speaking truth here. I have always considered this text referring to Jesus' remarks to his disciples in John 16:8.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
I think for the sake of clarity, most people tend to view the gospels as a chronoligical account of what transpired written in real time, when in actuallity the Gospels were written years later. The comment...the Holy Ghost had not been given was written as an after thought.
It does not really change anything. The Holy Ghost, at the time, had not yet been given. Why? Because Jesus had not yet been glorified. They were told specifically to go and wait for this gift at Jerusalem and it took till the day of Pentecost for this event to happen
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Why did the Holy Spirit fill Elizabeth if she was not a clean vessel ie: her sins were not remitted? For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins Elizabeth was under the law. Maybe your premise is faulty.
Are stating her sins were never forgiven/remitted under the law?
Quote:
What happened to King David when he sinned? Did the Holy Ghost leave him?
and then come back to him after he repented and offered the correct sacrifice?
Huh? Who has made this claim.
Quote:
What makes you think the Holy Ghost will not be pleased to dwell in a vessel that has totally turned from their sinful ways by faith, by dying to sin in repentance, and is seeking to live according to the word of God?
Uh not that sin is wiped away ...
Quote:
If someone is ACCEPTED by God, what is to prevent God from filling that person with His Spirit? Acts 10:35 Otherwise every time a born again Christian sins, then according to your logic, the Holy Spirit must leave that unclean vessel until repentance and confession happens
Nothing should prevent God ... he enters and makes residence right away ... and being that God is the Holy Spirit ... well you fill in the blanks. According to your doctrine ... God made residence in Cornelius ... without first wiping his sins away.
Through our continual faith in His sacrifice our sins are forgiven .... all we must do is confess our sins ... and he forgives us. See 1 John.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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