Obey Them that Rule???

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Cooper, your disrespect and flippancy cause you to lack credibility. If you really want to be heard and understood, you should try leaving out the sarcasm and smart-Aleck comments every now and then.

I like you MissBrattified.

I appreciate the advice, I agree for the most part.

But thats just the way Coon and I speak to each other.

It's been that way since FCF.

Humbled,

Cooper

[Blubayou]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

If there is no one in your life who can jerk you up short and make you listen once in a while, there is a subtle transformation that takes place in your mind and spirit.

You get more and more autonomous in your thinking, and more and more strong-willed. This is a condition that sets you up for deception, because you are your ultimate authority, and there are no checks and balances on your will and your ego.

God knew we needed the sometimes abrasive influence of authority figures in our life to keep us from becoming so full of ourselves that we become unteachable.

I have just started reading this thread, but Mich has been on by heart and mind today. I think this advice is very much on target.

[Scott Hutchinson]

You are to obey them that instruct you in the Lord in Biblical matters.
However if your Pastor is not asking you to do something harmful to you or your family , one should as comply with their suggestions as long as they reasonable out of respect for the leadership of an assembly.
Having said this there are cultic overbearing Pastors out there who dominate and Lord themselves over God's heritage.
But there are loving Pastors out there who hold the best interest of the saints at heart.
I certainly don't agree with my pastor on everything but I respect him as a Christian Minister.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Furthermore:

I have been taken advantage of by pastors.

I have been wronged by elders.

But that would not excuse me if I decided I would no longer submit to either my pastor or elders. In the judgment, God would not say, "Well, son, I am going to overlook your willfullness and rebellion because I know how bad you were hurt. There, there."

Here comes another revelation: I have been done wrong by some bum, supposed-to-be saints.

Would that excuse me being suspicious of God's people, and mistreating them because of my scars and wounds? Not on your life.

The fact is, God has given us the prescription for dealing with wrongs done to us. It's called forgiveness, and it works every time it's tried.

Amen!

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

OK, here's my take on submission and authority. There are MANY behind pulpits who believe they are "potentates" and rulers. They believe it is their responsibility and right to "rule" over people's lives in varying degrees. They are very good at wielding a sword. However, those "rulers" are always having difficulty getting people to submit to their "rulership." So they swing their sword harder and harder and threaten more and more. Those type of leaders NEVER have people wholeheartedly and willingly submitted to their lead.

On the other hand, there are leaders who do NOT believe it is their goal to get people to submit to them. These leaders are true shepherds and know that the enemy is the one who would destroy the sheep. The enemy is the ONLY one the true shepherd will use his sword on. The true shepherd will lay down his life for the sheep he protects. He will serve them and lead them into good pastures and lovingly correct them and lead them into the best grazing grounds. This type of leader has very little difficulty in getting people to follow his lead and submit to the direction he feels they should go.

One leader is good with the sword and the other is good with the towel. People will follow a leader who is willing to die with them as he leads them to battle. People will be very reluctant to follow a leader who shouts orders from the back of the crowd.

For a great read, get "The Way of the Shepherd" by Dr. Kevin Leman & William Pentak. It is very good reading. I have a young man in our church who moved to Toledo and works at a large hospital there. He read this little book and gave it to his supervisor to read as well. The supervisor made it mandatory reading for all of the staff. It's only about 100 pages long. EVERY pastor should read it and practice its principles.

GRRRREat post MOW!!!!

Personally I like a pastor who has the ability to say, "Carp, you had a 3 on the last hole, you're up...oh and later, I'd like to know more about your thoughts on...........!"

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

OK, here's my take on submission and authority. There are MANY behind pulpits who believe they are "potentates" and rulers. They believe it is their responsibility and right to "rule" over people's lives in varying degrees. They are very good at wielding a sword. However, those "rulers" are always having difficulty getting people to submit to their "rulership." So they swing their sword harder and harder and threaten more and more. Those type of leaders NEVER have people wholeheartedly and willingly submitted to their lead.

On the other hand, there are leaders who do NOT believe it is their goal to get people to submit to them. These leaders are true shepherds and know that the enemy is the one who would destroy the sheep. The enemy is the ONLY one the true shepherd will use his sword on. The true shepherd will lay down his life for the sheep he protects. He will serve them and lead them into good pastures and lovingly correct them and lead them into the best grazing grounds. This type of leader has very little difficulty in getting people to follow his lead and submit to the direction he feels they should go.

One leader is good with the sword and the other is good with the towel. People will follow a leader who is willing to die with them as he leads them to battle. People will be very reluctant to follow a leader who shouts orders from the back of the crowd.

For a great read, get "The Way of the Shepherd" by Dr. Kevin Leman & William Pentak. It is very good reading. I have a young man in our church who moved to Toledo and works at a large hospital there. He read this little book and gave it to his supervisor to read as well. The supervisor made it mandatory reading for all of the staff. It's only about 100 pages long. EVERY pastor should read it and practice its principles.

Agree~

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Furthermore:

I have been taken advantage of by pastors.

I have been wronged by elders.

But that would not excuse me if I decided I would no longer submit to either my pastor or elders. In the judgment, God would not say, "Well, son, I am going to overlook your willfullness and rebellion because I know how bad you were hurt. There, there."

Here comes another revelation: I have been done wrong by some bum, supposed-to-be saints.

Would that excuse me being suspicious of God's people, and mistreating them because of my scars and wounds? Not on your life.

The fact is, God has given us the prescription for dealing with wrongs done to us. It's called forgiveness, and it works every time it's tried.

CS, your behavior might not be excused, but if I were your leader and you had trouble submitting and trusting and I knew your past, I would completely understand and try to walk you through the healing process. Some folks can get "stabbed" and move right on. Others start shaking every time they see a knife. It's just human nature. Again, I'm not saying the behavior is excused, I'm only saying that a little understanding goes a long way to help building trust in those who have been hurt.

Like you, I have been hurt by a few sheep as well.....deeply. Some times it takes a little longer to recover but I believe the Lord does want us healed, delivered, recovered and walking in victory. I guess it's easier to help others when you know what they've gone through.

I like your wisdom here!

[Felicity]

Some folks can get "stabbed" and move right on. Others start shaking every time they see a knife.

Excellent point. We don't all handle things the same way. And we sometimes can be very judgmental of others because we tend to think everybody else should be the way we are.

That can be a problem.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Excellent point. We don't all handle things the same way. And we sometimes can be very judgmental of others because we tend to think everybody else should be the way we are.

That can be a problem.

People respond differently to advise or direction. One can't use a "canned" approach and expect it to work every time.

Pro golfers carry 14 clubs in their bag, because a particular club works best for particular situations. There is an art to what type of approach works best for particular personality types.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

People respond differently to advise or direction. One can't use a "canned" approach and expect it to work every time.

Pro golfers carry 14 clubs in their bag, because a particular club works best for particular situations. There is an art to what type of approach works best for particular personality types.

Right. I'm not too good in this department I don't think.