Was Jesus born again? - Page 20

LUKE2447 · #**191** 03-23-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Wow. You actually believe in salvation by works? If not, then that is what I was saying... salvation is not by works. that does not mean evil works will not cause a saved soul to be lost. But works do NOT get us into heaven. Salvation by works is absolute heresy!

you need to read.

http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Justi...0902876&sr=8-1

you must qualify what works are. As usual of those wo read patheticreformed teachers stick ther heads in the mud on what is meant by works. So you are saying obedience has nothing to do with our standing before God eternally?

mfblume · #**192** 03-23-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I edited my post. Please reread it. I'm sure that is what Luke is talking about. The new birth change will always produce good fruit and action will always follow. If we refuse to walk in that and ignore the leading of the Spirit, we can still be lost; which is what you believe also.

Yes, that is what I believe.

mfblume · #**193** 03-23-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

you need to read.

http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Justi...0902876&sr=8-1

you must qualify what works are. As usual of those wo read patheticreformed teachers stick ther heads in the mud on what is meant by works. So you are saying obedience has nothing to do with our standing before God eternally?

Grace would not only allow you to see the reality of the picture, but to talk to a person more kindly and to check what they mean when they say something. lol

We have obedience, but that obedience is not a DEBT WE OWE, but rather the natural results of a true faith that works, while the faith is what saves us and not the works.

mfblume · #**194** 03-23-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Yes the saved will not be judged eternally by their evil works because their sins will be forgiven. However his work in His causes us to work the good works. So its not us that does them but the Spirit within us. Lets be in that crowd!

Amen.

onefaith2 · #**195** 03-23-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

you need to read.

http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Justi...0902876&sr=8-1

you must qualify what works are. As usual of those wo read patheticreformed teachers stick ther heads in the mud on what is meant by works. So you are saying obedience has nothing to do with our standing before God eternally?

I don't think thats what he means at all.

mfblume · #**196** 03-23-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I don't think thats what he means at all.

LUKE2447 · #**197** 03-23-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I don't think thats what he means at all.

He is playing both sides and it wont work. Faith and works are contextually bound togethor. You cannot have the justification of Abraham and not be obedient to receive. If obedience is at all related to salvation his argument fails.

mfblume · #**198** 03-23-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

He is playing both sides and it wont work. Faith and works are contextually bound togethor. You cannot have the justification of Abraham and not be obedient to receive. If obedience is at all related to salvation his argument fails.

You just do not follow what I am saying.

Faith saves and WILL WORK. But the works do not save, and the faith is not present if it is not working. Grains of legalism cause one to never truly understand righteousness. Those who propose it are never understood, just as Paul kept having to disclaim that he did not mean to sin that righteousness may abound, and he did not mean to say that we are not under law for the purpose to be able to sin.

LUKE2447 · #**199** 03-23-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You just do not follow what I am saying.

Faith saves and WILL WORK. But the works do not save, and the faith is not present if it is not working. Grains of legalism cause one to never truly understand righteousness. Those who propose it are never understood, just as Paul kept having the disclaim that he did not mean to sin that righteousness may abound, and he did not mean to say that we are not under law for the purpose to be able to sin.

Mike... again fath is contextual. If God says move to Dallas TX. What is faith? If you don't move Mike are you justified before God though doing good in many other areas? The church in ephesus was not just before God in all things and had to turn from what they did to be considered right before him or they would lose all. I understand your point of Faith saves and WILL WORK but on a technical level mike faith that saves is contextually responsive and is justitifed BY the work.

does John 15:4-15 have justification by faith in it?

mfblume · #**200** 03-23-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Mike... again fath is contextual. If God says move to Dallas TX. What is faith? If you don't move Mike are you justified before God though doing good in many other areas? The church in ephesus was not just before God in all things and had to turn from what they did to be considered right before him or they would lose all. I understand your point of Faith saves and WILL WORK but on a technical level mike faith that saves is contextually responsive and is justitifed BY the work.

does John 15:4-15 have justification by faith in it?

Faith is justified by the work, but WE are not justified by the work. This is the integral difference in James and Paul's focuses. Neither were wrong. But James was saying a man's CLAIM and His FAITH is justified by his works, not the man himself.