I'll only answer that question with this question. Was this pastor you set under who used those words as prominent as Rev Jerimiah Wright? What about you, are you as prominant as Barack Obama? Are you going to run for president? Big difference Dude!
I guess I just don't put these guys up on pedestals. They're just as human and you and me.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
When you have political asperations, you choose your friends and aquaintences wisely. Obama said that the Rev. Wright was like an uncle that he disagrees with every once in a while.
hmmmmmm.......you can choose your friends, but you're STUCK with family!! You have to work with your relationship with your uncle, but you you can choose a different pastor or friend if you go sideways in beliefs.
I think it's easy to say, "Just leave the pastor." But often doing so is difficult...especially if he's like family and has played a cherished role in your life. Yep, you may disagree with him on some things...but he's your pastor. My first pastor was a man I disagreed with on several things...but I couldn't "choose" a different pastor. I served under him until he died. While I disagreed on many things he believed (example, he thought mixed marriages were sin) he was very special to me. I'd say he was more special than even many of my blood relatives.
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There was an interesting statistic I read today somewhere that said only 35% of whites will stay with the same church over their lifetime, while 70% of blacks will stay. The reasoning was that in the black culture, they are more loyal and seem to want to work through their differences more.
That is interesting.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
I think it's more than just "white folks who are also Apostolic". From where I come from I'm not surprised to hear of white folk who have some of the views expressed. But an Apostolic...now that is something we have to really look at . An Apostolic should be some one who seeks to understand other races, their perspectives, their battles, and seek healing and common ground. It doesn't mean we don't disagree on some things...but we all can agree that the underlying issue of pain and distrust, especially for those in Jeremiah's generation is very real and what is said should be understood in that context.
Us mean ole folks who believe in personal responsibility and accountibility, that words do matter, embarress you?
It is funny how things get turned around and because we are holding Obama accountible for submitting himself and his family to the spiritual leadership of a hate mongering racist we suddenly are racist, don't understand black folks, and are an embarressment. Hmmmmm...... The liberal educational system and media must be so proud of you.
I think it's easy to say, "Just leave the pastor." But often doing so is difficult...especially if he's like family and has played a cherished role in your life. Yep, you may disagree with him on some things...but he's your pastor. My first pastor was a man I disagreed with on several things...but I couldn't "choose" a different pastor. I served under him until he died. While I disagreed on many things he believed (example, he thought mixed marriages were sin) he was very special to me. I'd say he was more special than even many of my blood relatives.
That is interesting.
Uh, Chris, do you realize that he refers to the man as his former pastor now?
Doesn't seem like he had a problem leaving when the media started hounding him!!!
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Us mean ole folks who believe in personal responsibility and accountibility, that words do matter, embarress you?
It is funny how things get turned around and because we are holding Obama accountible for submitting himself and his family to the spiritual leadership of a hate mongering racist we suddenly are racist, don't understand black folks, and are an embarressment. Hmmmmm...... The liberal educational system and media must be so proud of you.
Obama's pastor isn't "racist". Passionate about his people's struggles? Yes. Focused on issues facing them? Yes. A bit misinformed regarding AIDS and the like? Yes. But a "racist"? No.
Don't you see how you're adding gasoline to the fire? The man's generation saw many injustices and discrimination. That's going to come out in his world view. He's a product of his era and his experiences.
Honestly I don't think many of us here understand black folks. We have a black brother here that has expressed as much also. And yes...no offense...but sometimes I find it embarrassing.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
Obama's pastor isn't "racist". Passionate about his people's struggles? Yes. Focused on issues facing them? Yes. A bit misinformed regarding AIDS and the like? Yes. But a "racist"? No.
Don't you see how you're adding gasoline to the fire? The man's generation saw many injustices and discrimination. That's going to come out in his world view. He's a product of his era and his experiences.
Honestly I don't think many of us here understand black folks. We have a black brother here that has expressed as much also. And yes...no offense...but sometimes I find it embarrassing.
Chris, there are black folks, even ones in power, who have a problem with the man. It's not just white folks who have a problem with him. Quit adding fuel to the fire by giving them excuses and say that 'we' don't understand them.
They aren't giving him the excuses that you are. I find that telling.
And that black brother you mention? I haven't seen him post those sentiments that you attribute to him. Not once did he say nor imply that he isn't understood by white folks. That's just silly.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Wasn't Ruth a Moabite and then there's the prostitute Rahab who I don't believe was Jewish.
Ruth was in David's lineage...was Rahab? Anyways....Jesus is so far far removed from Ruth that he can't be called "mixed". That's absurd. If that is the case just about everyone in America is "mixed".
And racially....was Ruth black? What was she? In fact the Moabites lived in the same region...making them semitic just like the Israelites
ISBE
The Moabites were of Semitic stock and of kin to the Hebrews, as is indicated by their descent from Lot, the nephew of Abraham (Gen_19:30-37), and by their language which is practically the same as the Hebrew. This is clear from the inscription on the Moabite Stone, a monument of Mesha, king of Moab, erected about 850 BC, and discovered among the ruins of Dibon in 1868. It contains 34 lines of about 9 words each, written in the old Phoenician and Hebrew characters, corresponding to the Siloam inscription and those found in Phoenicia, showing that it is a dialect of the Semitic tongue prevailing in Palestine.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Uh, Chris, do you realize that he refers to the man as his former pastor now?
Doesn't seem like he had a problem leaving when the media started hounding him!!!
I know. Isn't that sad that a man had to abandon his pastor because so many whites can't handle the fire of a black preacher who grew up in a generation steeped in racism and discrimination. The man condemned America for her mistreatment of an entire people. And then summed it up by saying,
"God [blank] America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
Sis...social evils ranging from abortion to the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment* are indeed America acting "like she is God and she is supreme". And yes...God will condemn America for our wickedness if we don't repent.
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell condemned America by stating that 9/11 was the result of America's pro-abortion pro-homosexual culture. I see Jeremiah Wright as adding his voice to the chorus being sure to include America's original sins...racism and oppression.
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,” their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all.
The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”
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The Legacy of Tuskegee
In 1990, a survey found that 10 percent of African Americans believed that the U.S. government created AIDS as a plot to exterminate blacks, and another 20 percent could not rule out the possibility that this might be true. As preposterous and paranoid as this may sound, at one time the Tuskegee experiment must have seemed equally farfetched.
Who could imagine the government, all the way up to the Surgeon General of the United States, deliberately allowing a group of its citizens to die from a terrible disease for the sake of an ill-conceived experiment? In light of this and many other shameful episodes in our history, African Americans' widespread mistrust of the government and white society in general should not be a surprise to anyone.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
Most likely one on one and in person Jeremiah is a very likable man who respects people of all colors.
How can you say that? Most likely? Based on what? Anyone can appear likable
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However behind the pulpit I'm sure Obama has heard him say things that pushed the envelope. We all know preachers do this sometimes to capture the congregation's attention or shock them into considering implications of what is being said.
If I heard any Pastor say something THAT extreme and racially charged I would have a problem with it too. This goes beyond the "get your attention" factor. Anytime anyone does it, I would say it was a stupid move if they did not really believe it to be true
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I'm sure Obama heard these sermons but viewed them as extremely passionate civil rights preaching.
You're sure? How can you be sure? Let's deal with facts. The pastor said it. Obama says he never heard it but strongly condemns those things that were said.....hmmmmm
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Know how his pastor respects all people he probably never saw as being racist in any way.
Again....you know this for a fact?
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Obama most likely walked away from many a sermon challenged.
Most Likely???? What do you base this on?
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Challenged to address the social issues facing his people and people in poverty. Obama isn't a preacher, he probably has a "Jeremiah Light" approach that takes some of Jeremiah's vision for social justice and tempers it with political experience and knowledge.
Same with above....
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It's strange...but we human beings can listen to a single speaker or read a single poem and walk away with different impressions based on how we think personally.
Even Obama distanced himself from what the preacher said....Apparently he thinks enough of the voters would see it the way many of us here do too. It seems pretty explicit. Did the preacher himself say he was misunderstood? Did Obama?
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I think if someone was going to vote for Obama before this they're most likely intelligent enough to look into the deeper issues underlying this situation. I'm white and most of the white folks I know who are supporting Obama are the kind that seek to understand as opposed to being reactionary
Some people are also idealistic and look at things through rose colored glasses. Sorry, but Im just looking at the facts. It's not about feelings. I defended Obama against the Muslim accusations....because I just looked at the facts
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
How can you say that? Most likely? Based on what? Anyone can appear likable
It's called the benefit of the doubt because I don't know him personally. Do you?
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If I heard any Pastor say something THAT extreme and racially charged I would have a problem with it too. This goes beyond the "get your attention" factor. Anytime anyone does it, I would say it was a stupid move if they did not really believe it to be true
Clearly it would be too charged for you. However, I've read quite a bit on black history and America's treatment of the black people. I wouldn't be surprised by it.
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You're sure? How can you be sure? Let's deal with facts. The pastor said it. Obama says he never heard it but strongly condemns those things that were said.....hmmmmm
Obama has to condemn it...but at the same time Obama asked that we understand Jeremiah's generation. Obama claims he never heard it. Again, I give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Again....you know this for a fact?
It's called the benefit of the doubt because I don't know him personally. Do you?
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Most Likely???? What do you base this on?
It's called the benefit of the doubt because I don't know him personally. Do you?
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
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