Joy and depression???

[rgcraig]

I'm assuming that we are talking depression here and not just sadness, so with that said here are the symptoms of depression:

Symptoms of major depression include:

Distinctly depressed or irritable mood
Loss of interest or pleasure
Decreased or increased weight or appetite
Increased or decreased sleep
Appearing slowed or agitated
Fatigue and loss of energy
Feeling worthless or guilty
Poor concentration
Indecisiveness
Thoughts of death, suicide attempts or plans

How could the Joy of the Lord be where these feelings are?

[Felicity]

Thanks for enlarging on our thots Renda. I couldn't take the time.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Joy does not necessarily equate with happiness. You can have deep settled joy and peace and yet have "times" of feeling very unhappy.

Depression and unhappiness are not necessarily one and the same thing either.

So if you're talking about "depression" vs. feelings of unhappiness or "down" that are temporary and fleeting then I don't think you have the joy that comes as a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Feelings come and go and so we have our happy and unhappy times. Even when we're temporarily unhappy because of a circumstance or event that caused the unhappiness you can still have "JOY" in its biblical definition. But I don't believe you can be "DEPRESSED" as we usually think of it and be filled with "JOY" at the same time.

My 2 cents .........

As someone who has been depressed before (and I'm not referring to the fleeting moments we all have in life), I can tell you that it absolutely is possible to be depressed and have joy at the same time.

I'm thinking that some of the comments being made are based on personal opinion and not personal experience. Experience is what matters.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

As someone who has been depressed before (and I'm not referring to the fleeting moments we all have in life), I can tell you that it absolutely is possible to be depressed and have joy at the same time.

I'm thinking that some of the comments being made are based on personal opinion and not personal experience. Experience is what matters.

Is joy the same as Joy of the Lord?

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I'm assuming that we are talking depression here and not just sadness, so with that said here are the symptoms of depression:

Symptoms of major depression include:

Distinctly depressed or irritable mood
Loss of interest or pleasure
Decreased or increased weight or appetite
Increased or decreased sleep
Appearing slowed or agitated
Fatigue and loss of energy
Feeling worthless or guilty
Poor concentration
Indecisiveness
Thoughts of death, suicide attempts or plans

How could the Joy of the Lord be where these feelings are?

That's where the problem arises. Just like one cannot be happy and sad about the same thing, we can have happiness and sadness in our lives at the same time.

The joy of the Lord is apart from our personal feelings in life. I have often wondered how people can have the joy of the Lord in their lives when nothing goes right for them, but it's entirely possible.

Are they happy about their situation? Of course not, but that doesn't mean the joy of the Lord isn't with them.

And the symptoms above don't have to be present in the same person or even all the time. But it is fact that Holy Ghost filled people can suffer from depression. The church needs to address this problem more openly and honestly also.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

That's where the problem arises. Just like one cannot be happy and sad about the same thing, we can have happiness and sadness in our lives at the same time.

The joy of the Lord is apart from our personal feelings in life. I have often wondered how people can have the joy of the Lord in their lives when nothing goes right for them, but it's entirely possible.

Are they happy about their situation? Of course not, but that doesn't mean the joy of the Lord isn't with them.

And the symptoms above don't have to be present in the same person or even all the time. But it is fact that Holy Ghost filled people can suffer from depression. The church needs to address this problem more openly and honestly also.

Completely AGREE with this!!!!

What is the JOY of the LORD?

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Is joy the same as Joy of the Lord?

It can be.

I know what the stigma is in regard to depression. But understand that depression in the chronic state is related more to a feeling or mood than circumstances in life that make us feel that way.

Chemicals in your brain alter your mood during the day. Ever tried feeling sad when you are happy? Ever tried laughing when you are crying? It's difficult and pretty impossible to do.

If one has chemicals that keep them continuously in an altered state of mind, there is nothing one can do on their own. This is no different than a diabetic trying to force insulin out of their pancreas so they don't have to take meds.

Just like there are meds that help the pancreas excrete insulin, there are meds that help the brain issue chemicals that enhance our well-being....something the brains of most of us do automatically.

The brain is an organ that has the potential of something going wrong, just like every other organ in our body. We would never suggest to the diabetic that it's not a chemical that's their problem, but lack of prayer (something that is said to those suffering from chronic depression), right?

We know Alzheimer's is a brain disease, but did you know that the treatment of it is mood altering drugs? How is that any different than treating depression in the same manner?

Also, as I stated already, understand that I'm referring to chronic depression. This is a depressive state that lasts 6 months or more continuously. This isn't referring to situational or acute depression. Chronic depression is a state of mind not having anything to do with one's situation.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Completely AGREE with this!!!!

What is the JOY of the LORD?

That's a good question.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Completely AGREE with this!!!!

What is the JOY of the LORD?

That feeling you get when you know that you're better than somebody else. That your personal holiness standards are stricter than some compromiser from another church.

It's the feeling you get when you've shouted the same insipid one liner for the 3rd or 4th time at a bewildered questioner; giving them the "reason for the hope" that you yourself haven't bothered to think through to see if it's even reasonable.

It's knowing that you must be closer to God because all of the churches in your area are so full of compromisers.

It's going to church and hearing some bully shouting all of the above into a microphone thus confirming that you have always been right about everything.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Is joy the same as Joy of the Lord?

Is the joy of the Lord an emotion?