The Initial Physical Evidence

[Felicity]

ACOP's Official Statement of Faith

We believe in:

1) The verbal inspiration of the Holy Scriptures.

2) The eternal existence of one true God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3) The Saviour of men, the Lord Jesus Christ, conceived of the Holy Spirit, born
of the Virgin Mary, very God and very man.

4) The creation, test and fall of man, as recorded in Genesis; His total spiritual
depravity and inability to attain to divine righteousness.

5) The Gospel of the Grace of God, how that Christ died for our sins, was buried,
and rose again the third day for our justification.

6) The salvation of sinners by Grace, through faith alone in the perfect and sufficient
work of Christ on our behalf upon the cross of Calvary excluding all human merit.

7) Water baptism of believers by immersion in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

8) The baptism of the Holy Spirit as an experience subsequent to salvation, with the
scriptural evidence, namely, speaking in tongues.

9) The gifts of the Spirit as enumerated in I Corinthians, being exercised and practiced
as manifest in the early Church.

10) The Lord’s Supper, as a memorial for believers.

11) The healing of the body by Divine Power, or Divine Healing in many aspects as
manifested in the early Church.

12) The eternal life of the believer and the eternal punishment of the unbeliever.

13) The Spirit-filled life of separation from the world, and the perfecting of holiness
in the fear of God as an expression of Christian faith.

14) The reality and personality of Satan and demons.

15) The reality and ministry of holy angels.

16) The personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ for His Church.

17) In the sanctity of marriage, as a life long exclusive commitment between one man
and one woman.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

I was taught that you do not have the holy spirit unless you have spoken in tongues. Anybody else?

Yes... I was taught that.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by samp

Is TB someone on this forum?

Does anyone know any other Pentecostals who do not embrace the doctrine of initial physical evidence?

Most Trinitarian pentecostals.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Felicity

ACOP's Official Statement of Faith

We believe in:

8) The baptism of the Holy Spirit as an experience subsequent to salvation, with the
scriptural evidence, namely, speaking in tongues.

Felicity,

If the baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced by speaking in tongues what do you call the type of infilling a person would have when they have the Spirit of Christ in them at initial faith and repentance? bedauce without the Spirit of Christ we do not belong to him. So if the baptism of the Holy Spirit is subsequent to salvation then somehow one must have the Spirit prior, I'm just not sure there is scripture to prove that.

mizpeh, the Assemblies of God believe in tongues as the initial physical evidence.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Felicity,

If the baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced by speaking in tongues what do you call the type of infilling a person would have when they have the Spirit of Christ in them at initial faith and repentance?

I explain this by the fact there are different operations of the Spirit of God. One Spirit but different operations of the Spirit. He moves in and on us in a whole number of ways and not all at the same time..

He draws us.

He convicts us.

He forgives us.

He regenerates us.

He fills us.

He heals us

He chastises us.

He anoints us.

He calls us.

He leads us.

He teaches us.

He molds us.

He quickens us.

He comforts us

Encourages us.

Strengthens us.

Baptizes us.

Etc.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I do believe that the word bears out that tongues is often a physical evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

If you don't mind me asking.

Do you feel that the word demonstrates that tongues is absolutely the physical evidence required to be seen before it is known that one has received the Holy Ghost?

Tongues as "the initial physical evidence" is nothing more than an assumption being made based mainly on the event in Acts 2. It is not an actual doctrine in scripture. While I do believe that tongues are the initial evidence, it is nothing more than an assumption, i.e. that just because this appears to have been what happened in Acts 2 that this is to be considered the norm. THERE IS NO PASSAGE OF SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS TONGUES IS THE INITIAL EVIDENCE OF THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Most Trinitarian pentecostals.

And your evidence of this is what?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by samp

mizpeh, the Assemblies of God believe in tongues as the initial physical evidence.

I had read that in their articles of faith, but is that a different experience from being filled with the Spirit?
I'm in a discussion with someone by email that is questioning this very thing and he claims the infilling is different from baptism and that the disciples received the Spirit when Christ breathed on them after his resurrection.

I disagree with both statements and have shown why by scripture. He finds it difficult to believe someone must speak in tongues as the definite sign of receiving the Holy Ghost for a few reasons: the scriptures that teach we are saved by grace through faith in Rom and Gal and there are people who seek and seek and never seemed to speak in tongues, and this teaching is not found in the epistles.

What do you think?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Chan

Tongues as "the initial physical evidence" is nothing more than an assumption being made based mainly on the event in Acts 2. It is not an actual doctrine in scripture. While I do believe that tongues are the initial evidence, it is nothing more than an assumption, i.e. that just because this appears to have been what happened in Acts 2 that this is to be considered the norm. THERE IS NO PASSAGE OF SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS TONGUES IS THE INITIAL EVIDENCE OF THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST.

This is exactly the way I feel.