Calling all PAJCers: When does Justification and Remission Happen?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

Me too.


Bad Danny! BAD! BAD!

If you two thugs so even look his way, I'll have to give you two a smackdown!

[SDG]

Thanks J.

Originally Posted by J-Roc

If you two thugs so even look his way, I'll have to give you two a smackdown!

Ju ain'got nuttin, J-Rockhead

[RevDWW]

Where the Isrealites justified by circumcision in the Old Testament?

Justified G1344
δικαιόω
dikaioō
Thayer Definition:
1) to render righteous or such he ought to be
2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In the Old Testament was one able to believe he was a Jew and it be so even if he were not circumcised? No he had to have the covenant of circumcision to become a Jew. A Jew was justified by this outward sign.
The outward sign or covenant of circumcision was done away with in the New Testament, but there is still a spiritual one.

Romans 3:20 - 26 (KJV) 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 2:25 - Romans 2:29 (KJV) 25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Colossians 2:9 - Colossians 2:13 (KJV) 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

We are made righteous through the remission of sins.

[SDG]

DWW ... then you are an EPLEYIAN PAJCer. Interesting ... so justification happens at step 2.

How would you reconcile your view with

1 Corinthians 12:13-"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Can you be truly be His .... justified... declared righteous.... without the baptism of the Holy Ghost ....?

[RevDWW]

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 1 Corinthians 6:11 (KJV) 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I found this scripture very interesting. I wonder if the order here was just a random occurance? It appears we need it all.


PS. Thanks for the DWW....but I was just mess'n with yah

[SDG]

DWW ... what evidence do you have that physical circumcision justified ... or declared righteous, a Jew?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

DWW ... what evidence do you have that physical circumcision justified ... or declared righteous, a Jew?

However you want to slice it, they had no access to the benefits of the covenant without it. None.

Circumcision was pretty much a cut and dried issue...no pun intended.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 1 Corinthians 6:11 (KJV) 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I found this scripture very interesting. I wonder if the order here was just a random occurance? It appears we need it all.


PS. Thanks for the DWW....but I was just mess'n with yah

I'm a little confused you first stated justification happens at water baptism but the verse you've provided ... if to be taken that you are a WATER AND SPIRIT adherent ... clearly states that ye are justified in the name of the Lord and by the Spirit of God.

At which step DWW??? 2 or 3?

I appreciate your willingness to share the Word with us.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

DWW ... then you are an EPLEYIAN PAJCer. Interesting ... so justification happens at step 2.

How would you reconcile your view with

1 Corinthians 12:13-"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Can you be truly be His .... justified... declared righteous.... without the baptism of the Holy Ghost ....?

Epleyian PAJCer? Now that's a new one I've never heard before.