Uncut Hair

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

The covering prescribed in the Bible for a woman is something other than her hair-- else all men with hair on their head would dishonor God every time they prayed.

I studied this topic years ago and I came to the same conclusion.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I studied this topic years ago and I came to the same conclusion.

You all are exactly right. As I understand it most of the "Black" Apostolics practice this. I cant think off hand of any of the "White" Apostolics that do.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I agree with much of what you have to say brother. Annnnd, I am not all fired up about this subject so I didn't vote.

But if your wife (or my wife or daughters) cuts their hair, one thing is for sure. It will not be as long. Right?

I personally prefer my wife and daughters to have uncut hair (and they do).

Being a brother if my hair is to my behind but trimmed, is it long?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Being a brother if my hair is to my behind but trimmed, is it long?

Bump

[Michael The Disciple]

What we are discovering is that it is at least a shame if not a sin for women to pray or prophesy in the meeting without a veil/covering. Likewise for a many to pray or prophesy in the meeting with one on.

Long hair being used as nature pointing to this truth.

[Aquila]

First the text:

I Corinthians 11:1-16 (NLT)
1 And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.
2 I am so glad that you always keep me in your thoughts, and that you are following the teachings I passed on to you. 3 But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 A man dishonors his head if he covers his head while praying or prophesying. 5 But a woman dishonors her head if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head. 6 Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, she should cut off all her hair! But since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, she should wear a covering.
7 A man should not wear anything on his head when worshiping, for man is made in God’s image and reflects God’s glory. And woman reflects man’s glory. 8 For the first man didn’t come from woman, but the first woman came from man. 9 And man was not made for woman, but woman was made for man. 10 For this reason, and because the angels are watching, a woman should wear a covering on her head to show she is under authority.
11 But among the Lord’s people, women are not independent of men, and men are not independent of women. 12 For although the first woman came from man, every other man was born from a woman, and everything comes from God.
13 Judge for yourselves. Is it right for a woman to pray to God in public without covering her head? 14 Isn’t it obvious that it’s disgraceful for a man to have long hair? 15 And isn’t long hair a woman’s pride and joy? For it has been given to her as a covering. 16 But if anyone wants to argue about this, I simply say that we have no other custom than this, and neither do God’s other churches.

Here is my understanding of the issue:

1. The head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man. (Proper headship)
2. Men covering their head in worship dishonours their head. (because to wear a head covering is to pray like a Jew, one still under the Law)
3. Women uncovering their head in worship dishonours their head. (uncovering the head was viewed as being immodest, and dishonors a woman's husband)
4. Uncovered women are on the same level of dishonour as if they had their hair shaved off. (because a woman with her head shaved was typically either a prostitute or an adulteress)
5. If the woman chooses not to cover, she ought to have her hair cut off. (this indicates that if a Christian woman will not live modestly, she should be shamed like an adulteress)
6. But it is a shame for her to have her hair cut or shaved off, so she ought to be covered to avoid that. (amen. since it is a shame for a woman to be shaved, she should simply wear her covering and avoid bringing any measure of shame to herself or her husband)
7. Man is the glory of God. (for man was made first, in the very image of God)
8. Woman is the glory of the man. (because a woman was created to complement the man, and to suit his desires)
9. The woman was created for the man, not the other way around. (the woman was indeed created to be man's mate and companion)
10. Because of the angels. (a reference to the early belief that angels also attended worship, offering up prayers to God, and were offended by sin, carnality, and immodesty)
11. Even nature teaches that a man ought to be uncovered, because long hair on a man is a shame. (nature being shown as a fitting example as to why a man shouldn't be covered, but not a rule)
12. Even nature teaches that a woman ought to be covered, because long hair on a woman is a glory to her. (nature being shown as a fitting example as to why a woman should be covered, but not a rule)
13. The apostles teach no other custom. (Modesty and submission to headship is indeed taught by the apostles)
14. The churches of God have no other custom. (those churches following the teaching of the apostles also teach modesty and submission to headship)

Modesty is always a Christian spiritual practice, regardless of culture. So is submission to one's husband. The fact that the issue surrounded the veil is immaterial. It could have involved low necklines, plaited hair, or inappropriate dancing during worship. Such immodesty and disregard for the will of a woman's husband dishonors a woman's head, meaning her husband. We often fixate upon the material topic at hand, establish some outward legalistic "standard", and in the process we miss the underlying eternal principles that are at work.

Today, in our culture, a husband might ask that his wife not wear tight clothing, short skirts, low cut blouses, ostentatious jewelry or clothing, excessive makeup, a "bedroom-look" hair-style, etc. Should she disregard his will by professing some form of "Christian liberty" and appears immodest in the congregation (especially during worship) she insults the angels and dishonors her husband (her head)... just like the Corinthian women did when refusing to wear the veil in Paul's day.

In short, a woman can take up the practice of wearing a "head covering", but if her skirt is so tight she "duck-walks" into the gathering place for worship she is just as much in violation of the principles in I Corinthians 11 as the women in ancient Corinth were.

Why?

Because the underlying principles being taught by Paul weren't strictly about the "veil". A head covering is no "magic token" or "sacramental garb". Nor is it commanded anywhere in Scripture. What Paul was illustrating was the need for submission and modesty.

I'd also like to say that submission and modesty are not two different things as it relates to women. In fact, submission is a necessary element of modesty for Christian women. A Christian woman can be dressed as conservatively modest by all cultural standards... but if she isn't in loving submission to her husband... she's being brazen, prideful, and rebellious. Such attitudes, or dispositions of spirit, are brazenly immodest.

I believe that the issue Paul was addressing in I Corinthians 11:1-16 was that their women were becoming overzealous in their Christian liberty and choosing not to wear their veils in gatherings. They were even praying and prophesying without their veils. Culturally, only women of loose heathen morals and prostitutes (who shaved their heads) paraded around unveiled. This greatly disturbed the men in the congregation, because their wives were appearing too "loose". Their immodesty was insulting and only served to bring shame to their husbands. The men felt that the women should be made to wear their veils. The women felt their new found liberty in Christ should be exercised. The women were being immodest and not submitting to the headship of their husbands.

The issue was therefore not hair, not a head covering requirement, but rather an issue of immodesty and lack of submission.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

2. Men covering their head in worship dishonours their head. (because to wear a head covering is to pray like a Jew, one still under the Law)

I was discussing this point with a friend the other day. If this is the case, I think the discussion should surround that issue.

The issue was therefore not hair, not a head covering requirement, but rather an issue of immodesty and lack of submission.

But, the issue is about hair because the text says that it is. Perhaps, if we honestly get the head right, the rest falls into place. I say, honestly, because then we can't drag in the broadbrush of those who don't get it right.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The issue about hair is that you guys read in English.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The issue about hair is that you guys read in English.

Why state “to let the hair grow” when he could have said “uncut.”

[Evang.Benincasa]

1 Corintios 11:15

15 Por el contrario, a la mujer dejarse crecer el cabello le es honroso; porque en lugar de velo le es dado el cabello.

Doesn't say long here.