"washing of water by the word" Ephesians 5;25 - 27

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

does water not break in a C-section? but pardon my shorthand, then; i assumed "natural" would be enough to impart the meaning. Physical, then.

Where did they grow you?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Where did they grow you?

Groom Lake. I hear they also got a lot of Naegleria fowleri up there, too.

[shazeep]

6Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

i would say that Christ even explained the passage right here, although i am not discounting baptism, either, although of a different sort.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by RonMurray

Ephesians 5;25 - 27.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Key Phrase: "washing of water by the word".

Key Word: "word".

"word" = rhema.


The Word of God: Logos and Rhema

"There are two primary Greek words that describe Scripture which are translated word in the New Testament. The first, logos, refers principally to the total inspired Word of God and to Jesus, Who is the living Logos."

"The second primary Greek word that describes Scripture is rhema, which refers to a word that is spoken and means “an utterance.” A rhema is a verse or portion of Scripture that the Holy Spirit brings to our attention with application to a current situation or need for direction."

--- "Advanced Training Institute International"


In Ephesians 5;25 & 26, it says that Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. And where it says, "washing of water by the word", some people will say that this isn't referring to baptism, and explain that water here is referring to the word, because it says " by the word". But how are we baptized by the word? By applying that word of baptism, like in Acts 2;38, where it says, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The term "word" here in the Greek is "rhema", which means a specific word that's applied to a specifc need or situatuation. So it's talking about being washed by water by the word of baptism, or by the message, or instruction, or command, of baptism. 
.

Amen!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I'm just as Apostolic as you. I'm just as Acts 2:38 as you. I believe baptism is unto the forgiveness of sins. I do not believe, however, that John 3:5 is talking about baptism. One does not have to hang his hat on John 3:5 to believe baptism is a step towards being born again.

I think it has to be about baptism, because Jesus said all his teachings would be expounded upon once the Spirit came. And the only water and Spirit combination there is in their teachings are water and Spirit baptism. It's all through Acts.

[RonMurray]

You're right that we don't have to believe that water in John 3:5 is referring to batism to believe we must be baptized, because there's plenty of other scriptures. But if we want the correct interpretation of that verse and preach the truth, then, yes, we do have to believe and preach that.

The water and Spirit in John 3:5 is the same as the water and Spirit mentioned in 1 John 5:8, that I mentioned before. The blood, water, and Spirit are directly connected with repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. The blood of Christ is applied in repentance, water is applied in baptism, and the Spirit is applied by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Just like in Romans 6:3 - 6 and 8:11, where it talks about the believer being crucified, buried, and resurrected with Christ through repentance, baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit. See the connection between all these?

Repentance = Death
Baptism = Burial
Holy Spirit = Resurrection

Also...

Repentamce = Blood
Baptism = Water
Holy Spirit = Spirit

We could put them all together...

Repentance = Death = Blood
Baptism = Burial = Water
Holy Spirit = Resurrection = Spirit

I was taught these things by divine revelation and teaching from God by His Spirit. These are the teachings of God. This is apostolic teaching.

If you want to know the truth for yourself, go to God about it, and ask God to let you know if these things are true or not.

I went to God before and asked Him to let me know if it's true that everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues, and if it's true that He's Jesus, and if God wanted every believer to be baptized in the name of Jesus, or if it didn't matter. And God showed me in His word, and gave me divine revelation and understanding of those versrs, and confirmed it to and made me know that it's true, that everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues, and that He is Jesus, that Jesus and God atre one in the same, and that it is the will of God for every believer to baptized in the name of Jesus. And I cpntinued on by praying and asking God to teach me more about salvation, and trach me more about the things in the Bible that's connected with Acts 2:38, because I wanted to learn as much as I could about it, and I asjed God to give me a spirit of revelation and give me knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, and teach me His word and His ways in general.

And God showed me and taught me a lot by His Spirit. So I encpurage you to do the same. That's why I gave the specifics of what I prayed, so you could do thr same. After asking God to let you know if those things are true or not, also pray and ask God to give you a spirit of revelation, and give you knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, to teach you His word and His ways.

[shazeep]

for what it's worth, water may also signify people, your ship is supposed to be 'at sea,' not in a safe harbor, etc., so there may be other valid interpretations for "washing of water by the word," not to discount yours. Note that we have no church direction @ "baptism with...fire" Matt 3:11 Luke 3:16, and a quick poll elicits some confusion at an interpretation there.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by RonMurray

You're right that we don't have to believe that water in John 3:5 is referring to batism to believe we must be baptized, because there's plenty of other scriptures. But if we want the correct interpretation of that verse and preach the truth, then, yes, we do have to believe and preach that.

The water and Spirit in John 3:5 is the same as the water and Spirit mentioned in 1 John 5:8, that I mentioned before. The blood, water, and Spirit are directly connected with repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. The blood of Christ is applied in repentance, water is applied in baptism, and the Spirit is applied by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Just like in Romans 6:3 - 6 and 8:11, where it talks about the believer being crucified, buried, and resurrected with Christ through repentance, baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit. See the connection between all these?

Repentance = Death
Baptism = Burial
Holy Spirit = Resurrection

Also...

Repentamce = Blood
Baptism = Water
Holy Spirit = Spirit

We could put them all together...

Repentance = Death = Blood
Baptism = Burial = Water
Holy Spirit = Resurrection = Spirit

I was taught these things by divine revelation and teaching from God by His Spirit. These are the teachings of God. This is apostolic teaching.

If you want to know the truth for yourself, go to God about it, and ask God to let you know if these things are true or not.

I went to God before and asked Him to let me know if it's true that everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues, and if it's true that He's Jesus, and if God wanted every believer to be baptized in the name of Jesus, or if it didn't matter. And God showed me in His word, and gave me divine revelation and understanding of those versrs, and confirmed it to and made me know that it's true, that everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues, and that He is Jesus, that Jesus and God atre one in the same, and that it is the will of God for every believer to baptized in the name of Jesus. And I cpntinued on by praying and asking God to teach me more about salvation, and trach me more about the things in the Bible that's connected with Acts 2:38, because I wanted to learn as much as I could about it, and I asjed God to give me a spirit of revelation and give me knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, and teach me His word and His ways in general.

And God showed me and taught me a lot by His Spirit. So I encpurage you to do the same. That's why I gave the specifics of what I prayed, so you could do thr same. After asking God to let you know if those things are true or not, also pray and ask God to give you a spirit of revelation, and give you knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, to teach you His word and His ways.

I get a little nervous when one speaks of "divine revelation". I think it is better to speak of "illumination" of God's word, after lengthy study and prayer.

You spoke of I John 5:8. It is clearly referring to to Christ's death, baptism and divine conception. The context of this passage is God testifying of Christ.

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

But again, while I do not feel I John 5:8 or John 3:5 are referring to our baptism in water, there are still many passages that link baptism to the remission of sins.

[RonMurray]

Yes, I know about symbolisms of water in the Bible. That's why I pointed out the meaning of it in connection with "word", which is "rhema", which means water that is applied, as in baptism.

And trying to interpret "water" as "people" in this versecwould not make any sense. The scriptures do take divine revelation and understanding, but some things take just simple common sense and reasoning that Goid has given us.

[RonMurray]

What you could do, though, is actually go to God about it.