5 fold ministry

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

What is the "common" interpretation you speak of? Let me guess... that the pastor fulfills in one man all five roles of the 5-fold ministry?
There have been plenty of discussions on that subject on AFF, but are probably buried in other threads by titles that don't specifically state the subject.

So, I guess this thread is as good a place as any to start a new discussion. Go ahead and share what you think the "common" interpretation is for starters.

Never even heard of that one.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

The Scripture:
"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
There are nine "gifts of the Spirit" to be manifested in the Church, and they are
given individually per individual...including to the Ministry.
The gifts are not personal but for the edifying of one another; additionally, they
are for "...the work of the ministry...". For those who don't know what that is,
it is to "...show forth the praises of Him that brought you out of darkness and unto
His marvelous light."

The Problem:
The Church has not been taught how to exercise the gifts; hence, there is little
faith to embrace them except, even as the Gospel, they are given mental assent.

The Question:
Are the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the Calling to the Ministry the same?
Of course not.
The gifts of the Spirit are TO the Church: "...to profit withal."
Whereas the Calling into the Ministry is exclusively FOR the Church: "For the
perfection of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of
the body of Christ."

The Calling:
It is the Lord Jesus who calls and ordains man into the Ministry: no one else can.
However,the presbytery can "confirm" the Calling and ordination through the "...laying
on of hands...". But understand, it is only a CONFIRMATION.

The Danger:
The Ministry's ears will wax old, and they will not be able to discern between
them who are Called, and the men-pleasers. And so many denoms are ordaining
men-pleasers: who show outward humility and obedience.

That's enough for now.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by allstate1

I guess I'm being too simplistic or I'm just dumb. The way I read the KJV it would mean that he gave "some". Meaning not all or not the whole population. In that sense I wouldn't have been giving all 5 things listed. eg. He gave some apples some oranges some bananas and some figs and grapes. If I were to use that sentence it would mean that I had 5 fruits to give to a crowd but not enough of any one fruit to give to every single person in that crowd. But each individual did receive a fruit.

The Holy Spirit imparts a gift to each person: which COULD mean that everyone
has a "gift of the Spirit".
Not so with the Ministry. The Lord selects (Calls) the Ministry from among those who have been "perfected", but not everyone. Nevertheless the Ministry, up to the Calling, has a gift he is exercising.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

The Lord selects (Calls) the Ministry from among those who have been "perfected", but not everyone. Nevertheless the Ministry, up to the Calling, has a gift he is exercising.

Scriptural verification, please.

[allstate1]

My questions concern the word "some". The way I read the "some " is the saints not the ministry. It does not say he gave all Apostles ,Prophets etc. Its like he is saying some "saints" respond or learn and are profected by Apostles while others may get more from a teacher.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

The Scripture:
"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
There are nine "gifts of the Spirit" to be manifested in the Church, and they are
given individually per individual...including to the Ministry.
The gifts are not personal but for the edifying of one another; additionally, they
are for "...the work of the ministry...". For those who don't know what that is,
it is to "...show forth the praises of Him that brought you out of darkness and unto
His marvelous light."

The Problem:
The Church has not been taught how to exercise the gifts; hence, there is little
faith to embrace them except, even as the Gospel, they are given mental assent.

The Question:
Are the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the Calling to the Ministry the same?
Of course not.
The gifts of the Spirit are TO the Church: "...to profit withal."
Whereas the Calling into the Ministry is exclusively FOR the Church: "For the
perfection of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of
the body of Christ."

The Calling:
It is the Lord Jesus who calls and ordains man into the Ministry: no one else can.
However,the presbytery can "confirm" the Calling and ordination through the "...laying
on of hands...". But understand, it is only a CONFIRMATION.

The Danger:
The Ministry's ears will wax old, and they will not be able to discern between
them who are Called, and the men-pleasers. And so many denoms are ordaining
men-pleasers: who show outward humility and obedience.

That's enough for now.

I must say that this helped me. I agree with you also. The majority of so-called "ministers" are not called of God.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

The Holy Spirit imparts a gift to each person: which COULD mean that everyone
has a "gift of the Spirit".
Not so with the Ministry. The Lord selects (Calls) the Ministry from among those who have been "perfected", but not everyone. Nevertheless the Ministry, up to the Calling, has a gift he is exercising.

I have been thinking that for some time now. But I have no scriptural verification for it.

God has made some people to do certain things. There are some people who believe if you follow in an apostle footsteps, you will one day be an apostle. They take the scripture "Follow me as I follow Christ" to a whole different level.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Never even heard of that one.

It was taught in the church I grew up in. We had one pastor in the church. There were no elders, bishops, deacons or anything of that sort. It was taught that the pastor fulfilled all the roles of the 5-fold ministry.

[KeptByTheWord]

The simple way I understand the 5-fold ministry and leadership is this. The 5-fold ministry are given as gifts. They are part of the gifts of the spirit that are imparted to the church. The gifts are different from leadership in the church.

Romans 12:6 "Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; or ministry, let us wait on our ministering, or he that teacheth, on teaching; or he that exhorteth, on exhortation, he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity, he that ruleth, with diligence, he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness."

Paul spends quite a bit of time educating Timothy about the role of leadership and qualifications for bishops, elders, and deacons in the church. It is because of this we see that there is a difference here between a ministry and a leadership position. There are qualifications for leadership positions that are not outlined as clearly for gifts of ministry.

To summarize: The 5-fold ministry operates as gifts within the church. Qualifications are not detailed for those ministries. In contrast, those overseeing the church have qualifications that they must fulfill before being qualified to oversee a church, and those positions would include bishop, elder, and deacon. 1 Timothy chapters 3, 4 and 5

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

It was taught in the church I grew up in. We had one pastor in the church. There were no elders, bishops, deacons or anything of that sort. It was taught that the pastor fulfilled all the roles of the 5-fold ministry.

I didn't know you and I attended the same church back then. lol