Why I'm Against Perry

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Ah, okay. So Christians should not hold political office?

no Cindy because if they did and they were true Christians then SOMETHING might actually get done.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i don't think true christians should be politicians, many beliefs would have to be comprimised. i think politicians can be christian, but it is not their main vocation. i think politicians are called to their office but not as christians.

personally, and this is nothing against you, I think this theory is crazy. IF a true Christian is not to be a politician, and I believe many have felt this way, then we are supposed to let ourselves be governed by heathens or untrue Christians???? that is just, sorry, stupid.

[TJJJ]

Perry is great, he's got my vote!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Hoovie, how do you think 2 tim 2:4 applies to Perry?

It just means that when it comes to the matters of Lord Jesus, we must be single minded and all else must be a distant second.

I don't think it means politics in particular.

[Dagwood]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i don't think true christians should be politicians, many beliefs would have to be comprimised. i think politicians can be christian, but it is not their main vocation. i think politicians are called to their office but not as christians.

1) Define "true christian."
2) Which beliefs would be "compromised?" Perhaps those that don't specifically align with yours? I'm sorry, but your convictions are not universal.
3) "...but not as christians." Please explain this statement. Surely you don't want politicians who have no spritiual foundation leading the country...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Here is a quote Pressing On posted.



according to 2Tim 2:4 "No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life"

this is a clear admonition of true disciples becoming politicians, imo

eph 6:15 says "and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace"

how can the commander and chief of the military practice peace and turn the other cheek?

imo, politicians are not true disciples of christ, but use religion for tactical gains in popularity. Perry is no different.[/LEFT]

As you have said, you are expressing your own opinions here. The Scripture, however, is more open to various understandings on the subject of self defense and just war.

According to your take (and I admire your take even if I don't entirely agree with it!) Christians can NEVER be political leaders or rulers of any kind. Being a ruler means that one has to take up the sword at times to defend the innocent.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The politicians and other rulers are said to have been installed in office "of God." Technically, that would also apply to whatever office Gov. Perry holds. If he should run for President and be elected, you owe him your deference as as he's a "minister of God." (The same for President Obama, guys).

Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

The consequences for refusing to obey could be rather dire.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Paul is speaking in general terms here, obviously. Regimes like the Nazis, Stalin, Saddam Hussein and that ilk step across a line when they become a terror to those who are doing good.

However, the general principle remains. The "rulers" must have at their disposal a means of inflicting fear or "terror" in the hearts of the evil doers. That means is "the sword," or military violence.

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

If Gov. Perry (or really, whoever) is elected President, they are a MINISTER OF GOD and bear a sword as a consequence of their ministry.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Dagwood

1) Define "true christian."
2) Which beliefs would be "compromised?" Perhaps those that don't specifically align with yours? I'm sorry, but your convictions are not universal.
3) "...but not as christians." Please explain this statement. Surely you don't want politicians who have no spritiual foundation leading the country...

true christians are concerned about outreach, the poor, homeless, widow and orphans(like the democratic party). politicians would compromise thheir beleifs when they pass laws to support campaign contributors and not their true convictions. true politicians are about governing with all the dirty compromise involved and not concerned with religous conviction. imo

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by pelathais

As you have said, you are expressing your own opinions here. The Scripture, however, is more open to various understandings on the subject of self defense and just war.

According to your take (and I admire your take even if I don't entirely agree with it!) Christians can NEVER be political leaders or rulers of any kind. Being a ruler means that one has to take up the sword at times to defend the innocent.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The politicians and other rulers are said to have been installed in office "of God." Technically, that would also apply to whatever office Gov. Perry holds. If he should run for President and be elected, you owe him your deference as as he's a "minister of God." (The same for President Obama, guys).

Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

The consequences for refusing to obey could be rather dire.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Paul is speaking in general terms here, obviously. Regimes like the Nazis, Stalin, Saddam Hussein and that ilk step across a line when they become a terror to those who are doing good.

However, the general principle remains. The "rulers" must have at their disposal a means of inflicting fear or "terror" in the hearts of the evil doers. That means is "the sword," or military violence.

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

If Gov. Perry (or really, whoever) is elected President, they are a MINISTER OF GOD and bear a sword as a consequence of their ministry.

Pel, I agree with you that politicians are called in their vocation, but how can a true christian who cares for spreading the gospel, the poor etc, be a politician who owes their allegiance to campaign contributors? wouldn't we see the kingdom of God on earth if politicians were true christians? what did we get with Bush? 2 unpaid wars, tax breaks for the rich, where were his christian values?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Pel, I agree with you that politicians are called in their vocation, but how can a true christian who cares for spreading the gospel, the poor etc, be a politician who owes their allegiance to campaign contributors? wouldn't we see the kingdom of God on earth if politicians were true christians? what did we get with Bush? 2 unpaid wars, tax breaks for the rich, where were his christian values?

I am amazed at the gulible folks that fall for the politicans and media that talke about the rich tax breaks when they pay more taxes than anyone. And the ironic part to me is the politicans spouting about the rich are RICH themselves. How hypocritical is that?

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Esther

I am amazed at the gulible folks that fall for the politicans and media that talke about the rich tax breaks when they pay more taxes than anyone. And the ironic part to me is the politicans spouting about the rich are RICH themselves. How hypocritical is that?

as a percentage, they don't pay more taxes than anyone.