Identity Movement - Page 2

Cindy · #11 02-20-2011, 01:40 PM

I don't think the two are comparable.

Hoovie · #12 02-20-2011, 01:51 PM

I have a brother who was baptized by Pete Peters, and other, more distant relatives who were Identity and attended a UPC. They traveled to Michigan on occasion and seemed to prefer the UPC Identity church there because he would preach Apostolic Identity... I surmise this was due to the Apostolic doctrine that was preached along with the Identity message.

I am interested in knowing more about these Apostolic Identity ministries (if they still exist) and what they think of the recently co-opted labels?

For those who are concerned that this attack on their forum/blog site that started a week or two ago - it's not. I understand they are simply yet again redefining the term.

I am just surprised the "Apostolic Identity" term gained mainstream acceptance among national Apostolic speakers and writers in the last few years - in spite of it's infamous meaning. I dare say this would not have happened in the 90's.

Hoovie · #13 02-20-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Because the word "identity" is used by different groups, it does not necessarily follow that these groups all share similar ideals. For example, when DKB says "Apostolic Identity," he certainly does NOT have the ideals of the so-called "Christian Identity" movement in mind.

It's sort of like lumping the "Socialist Workers Party" together with the "Republican Party" simply because both groups use the word "Party." If you pronounced it as "Par-tay" I suppose we could throw in Moby and Lady Gaga as well.

No doubt DKB did have different ideals in mind - thats the point.

"Party" is much more generic then "Identity" though. I would liken it to adding the word "Communist" to Republican Party, or a sickle to the flag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The fact that some Apostolic pastors follow some of the tenets of the so-called "Christian Identity" movement is just plain sad.

I do know from personal experience that there is a relatively large number of Apostolic pastors and preachers who subscribe to "British-Israelism" - the idea that the people of England and Scotland are descended from the allegedly "Lost" Ten Tribes of Israel. Some go so far then as to call into question the identity of modern Jews. In this way they do marginalize the identity of the Jewish people.

Modern genetic studies have repeatedly shown that modern Jews are in fact genetically related to the Jews of the 70 AD diaspora and other populations of ancient Jews. Of course, a cursory reading of the Bible would show that there was a difference in the national identity of ancient Jews (Kingdom of Judah) and the "Ten Tribes" (Kingdom of Israel)... but the Bible doesn't tend to be something these guys are really interested in anyhow.

Yes I think the Identity movement was and perhaps still is widespread among some Apostolics.

Personally, I would have stuck with Apostolic Distinctive, or Apostolic Discipline to get the message out.

Hoovie · #14 02-20-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy

I don't think the two are comparable.

Yes. Exactly.

MissBrattified · #15 02-20-2011, 03:00 PM

I'm confused. Are you saying that we shouldn't use the term "Apostolic Identity" because it might be confused with "Christian Identity?" Or are you saying that the term (and concepts behind) "Apostolic Identity" came from that group?

Hoovie · #16 02-20-2011, 03:10 PM

Confused with? Possibly. But I am thinking more about the baggage it carries. My friends who associated with said Michigan church/ministries used the exact term "Apostolic Identity".

The current AI folks in the UPC are anything but racist. I am sure there is no particular association with the anti-government groups. (did I say they were??)

Sam · #17 02-20-2011, 03:17 PM

Some don't like to use the words "Apostolic" or "Pentecostal" because of the rotten way people who use those terms to describe themselves and their beliefs have acted.

notofworks · #18 02-20-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Some don't like to use the words "Apostolic" or "Pentecostal" because of the rotten way people who use those terms to describe themselves and their beliefs have acted.

I, most certainly, would fall into that category. But I'm pretty much at the same place with the label, "Christian."

notofworks · #19 02-20-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I don't know that there is a "link" to either one at all. They are both redefining the term. However, for those of us who were exposed to the Christian Identity groups and in particular Apostolic Identity it is very peculiar indeed.

When I first started hearing term bandied about in mainstream Apostolic churches I thought, "man, do they really want to do that?"

I poo-pooed the idea there was any intent, in fact, posted it at that "other place." But when I saw the bolded, I thought, "Hmm...and you're just now saying something?" But whichever, love believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things, so while the timing is a bit of a head-scratcher, I'm not going to assume anything.

MissBrattified · #20 02-20-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

I poo-pooed the idea there was any intent, in fact, posted it at that "other place." But when I saw the bolded, I thought, "Hmm...and you're just now saying something?" But whichever, love believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things, so while the timing is a bit of a head-scratcher, I'm not going to assume anything.

Why don't you ever take that tact with me?

I think I feel persecuted....