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03-28-2009, 10:38 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
A persona, in the word's everyday usage, is a social role or a character played by an actor. This is an Italian word that derives from the Latin for "mask" or "character", derived from the Etruscan word "phersu", with the same meaning. The word is also thought to be derived from Greek, "per" meaning "through" and "sona" meaning "sound", meaning something in the vein of "that through which the actor speaks", i.e. a mask (early Greek actors wore masks). - Wikpedia
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-28-2009, 10:40 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
No fuss here.
However the latin was 'form' in Phil 2 is en morphe which is a mask like an actor wears.  |
Form refers to servant, likeness in the same verse refers to man...
likeness, i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity.
Thayers
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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03-28-2009, 10:42 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Persona and persons can pretty much mean the same thing.
Here are a few lessor used definitions of "Person" from Dictionary.com
-- a character, part, or role, as in a play or story.
-- any of the three hypostases or modes of being in the Trinity, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
I find the latter one very interesting!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-28-2009, 10:44 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,649
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
My Arian friend has showed up. Greetings. |
Hey Steve!
Now an Arian is one who does not believe Yeshua is the Eternal Father. Am I right or wrong? So if I believe and teach that he is am I an Arian?
If Arians believe like me that Yeshua is the Wonderful Counselor, The Mighty God, The Eternal Father and the Prince of Peace then they are correct.
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03-28-2009, 10:46 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Those of you that are uncomfortable in speaking of the pre-existing Sonship of Christ, how do you read Hebrews 1 - especially verse 2?
2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. |
First of all start with verse 1. In times past he spoke to us through prophets but in these last days in or through a Son.
This points to the incarnation.
Next then it says God created by the Son. God created. If we look at John's gospel he starts with the Logos and only after the logos is made flesh does he call him "Son".
If God's agency isn't someone other than God, then God's agency is His own Word.
Bernard though sees this as God creating with the Son in view or in mind, the very foundation or corner stone of creation.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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03-28-2009, 10:46 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
Hey Steve!
Now an Arian is one who does not believe Yeshua is the Eternal Father. Am I right or wrong? So if I believe and teach that he is am I an Arian?
If Arians believe like me that Yeshua is the Wonderful Counselor, The Mighty God, The Eternal Father and the Prince of Peace then they are correct.
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Arians believe God made Jesus and Jesus made everything else.
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03-28-2009, 10:47 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
First of all start with verse 1. In times past he spoke to us through prophets but in these last days in or through a Son.
This points to the incarnation.
Next then it says God created by the Son. God created. If we look at John's gospel he starts with the Logos and only after the logos is made flesh does he call him "Son".
If God's agency isn't someone other than God, then God's agency is His own Word.
Bernard though sees this as God creating with the Son in view or in mind, the very foundation or corner stone of creation.
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Good thought Prax.
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03-28-2009, 10:58 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
First of all start with verse 1. In times past he spoke to us through prophets but in these last days in or through a Son.
This points to the incarnation.
Next then it says God created by the Son. God created. If we look at John's gospel he starts with the Logos and only after the logos is made flesh does he call him "Son".
If God's agency isn't someone other than God, then God's agency is His own Word.
Bernard though sees this as God creating with the Son in view or in mind, the very foundation or corner stone of creation.
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I understand that, but any way you look at it, vs 2 still says God created by and through the Son.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-28-2009, 11:08 PM
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Wouldn't Take Nothin' For My Journey Now!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,358
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
1 In the beginning was the Word. and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was not anything made
that was made.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world
knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the
sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
13 Which were born, not of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-3, 10-14 KJV
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03-28-2009, 11:24 PM
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Wouldn't Take Nothin' For My Journey Now!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,358
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
God IS a Spirit. God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.
A lamb or sinless sacrifice was prepared from the foundation of the world.
God could not die so he overshadowed the virgin Mary and she conceived
and gave birth to a Son, that COULD die, when the Spirit withdraw at the
Cross. God looked for a man in the OT but said He couldn't find one. So he
took His own seed and begot His Son. It was God's seed that Jesus came
from. God's seed and a virgin maiden.
God IS BIG and Great enough to carry out HIS Own Plan. He can do it all
by HIMSELF.
How Great Is Our GOD!
The splendor of a King,
Clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice,
All the earth rejoice
He wraps himself in light,
And darkness tries to hide
And trembles at his voice,
And trembles at his voice
How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
Age to age he stands
And time is in His Hands
Beginning and the End,
Beginning and the End
The Godhead, Three in one
Father, Spirit, Son
The Lion and the Lamb,
The Lion and the Lamb
How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
Name above all names
You are Worthy of all praise
and My heart will sing how great
Is our God
How great is our God,
Sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
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