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  #11  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
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iceniez iceniez is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
A lot of our philosophy is founded in the "Holiness Movement". You can find some good books that discuss this, and it's pretty eye-opening. The very earliest One-God Pentecostals didn't adhere to many of the "standards" that are now accepted as gospel.

Unfortunately, what many have done is take a position, and then go to the Bible to find scriptures to support their position. This is backwards.

You are certainly not backslid for questioning, although I understand exactly why you feel that way. I am right where you are right now.

Many Pentecostals are terrified of grace. They think that teaching grace will cause people to just live any ol' way. A true relationship with God will prevent that, of course. We still want to please God if we love Him. When I learned about what grace really was, it changed my world.

Keep seeking God. I agree completely with Sherri's post. Walk carefully.
What I feel is happening is God is getting ahold of us to reafirm our faith.[ie double check our position in him].He wants us to consider the truth.Many of us have heard things all of our lives and have taken them to be gospel,It is a good position to be in.Heb 12:1 says let us cast off every weight and sin.A weight is something that will hold us down or slow us down,Dare I say some of the things we have leared can be a weight or burden to us and are not what God wants for us.If you get a chance read Acts 15 and see what the first council said we should do.It feels weird because it is going against what we have always heard.One word that I know I got from God is [well three words] Restoration ,Reconciliation,Reformation.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:25 AM
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Re: Understanding Holiness

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
Remember the pentecostals come from the methodist movement which was and in a few places is still a holiness movement.
Many pentecoastals are terrified of standards.
That's the first time I've heard this. Could you please elaborate?
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:27 AM
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KWSS1976 KWSS1976 is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

Yea me too please tell..
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:32 AM
edjen01 edjen01 is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

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Originally Posted by wilderness View Post
I was raised Pentecostal (still attend a Pentecostal church) and have never understood the "holiness" standards.

I have conducted studies, read books, spoken to elders, pastoral staff, and top evangelist's within Pentecostal to attempt to gain a clear understanding. I have not heard a consistent explanation of why we do what we do. In the studies that I have conducted, I have yet to find concrete scriptures that create a firm foundation for the "holiness" standards.

I understand that it is obedience and submission to those that have authority over you statement that is commonly used.

Let me please note, that in any discussion it was not to debate, question, or be disrespectful. I believe that you must respect the office, even if you cannot respect the "man or woman" in the office. I have never had a heated discussion concerning this topic with anyone.

I believe that if one has a relationship with God, that he will convict you on an individual basis as your relationship grows with God. What God expects from one, maybe different from what he expects from another.

I believe we should be modest in appearance, I do not believe that only certain garments are modest. I have seen many endorsed "modest" garments be as revealing than non-endorsed garments. Likewise I have seen endorsed activities be as ungodly as non-endorsed activities. Over the last 15 years I have seen the "holiness" standards go from being evidence of a relationship with God, to the current status of a matter of salvation.

I have seen convictions of one individual be pushed on many individuals. I do not believe that this is proper or Biblical. However, I'm not a fan of throwing holiness to the wind and not having a stance on anything.

As you can tell, I'm in a very confusing time in my life. I have given up positions within the leadership of the current Church that I attend, because I cannot stand behind the leadership of the Church 100% and do not subscribe to the "holiness" standards 100%.

As a result I have been on a journey of visiting other Churches and to my amazement I have found that there are folks that are non-Pentecostal that are Christians. I have seen folks that have fruit to show for their relationship with God. Fruit, not in flashing lights, correctly operated sound systems, nice facilities, effectively ran programs, teaching for all age groups, excellent operations, community outreach, not to mention good preaching, etc., Fruit, talking about God, wanting to learn more, bringing visitors to church, excited to talk about church, caring for others and the community.

What has been disturbing for me, is to find that in the majority of the Church that folks are dressed rather modestly and that most of the things that I have heard over many Pentecostal pulpits don't match up with reality.

I believe in self examination rather than striking out at others or being ugly because I may be in a wilderness experience. As a result, I pose the following questions:

Am I blind to see the ungodliness of the non-Pentecostal churches?
Maybe. ungodliness is not limited to Pentecostals

Is there something wrong with me?
I don't know you...but I would guess probably not.

Am I a backslider?
don't know....were you ever a frontslider? if you are going back on previously held convictions...then you are going back...how you do it is up to you.

Am I taking my family down a dead end road?
could be. every road has the potentual to be a dead end. many have began a quest for truth and gotten lost or tired along the way...make sure you have a good mentor.

Why do I feel confused about everything I have heard since I was a child?
not sure...could be many different things...some are good....some are bad..

I know I'm not the first, nor the last that will or have posed these same questions.

What are your thoughts?
see them in bold.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:37 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

I don´t think anyone doubts how I live so I hope what I say will be taken in the light of how I live.
Let me begin by saying there is a real need for true HOLINESS....and this involves separation ...to Noah separation meant his salvation and the saving of his family...
Holiness includes honesty in business practices; the refraining from uncharitable, unprofitable, and unchristian conversation.

We are called unto fellowship with God who ". . . is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 Jn. 1:5, 6). Therefore, there is an absolute necessity for separation from whatever is "darkness;" that is, whatever is in direct opposition to His very nature. The perfect will of God for the saint is always the same: ". . . be ye HOLY in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye HOLY; for I am HOLY" (1 Pet. 1:15, 16).


We must "keep [ourselves] from idols" (1 Jn. 5:19-21) the allurements and snares that the "god of this world" sets before us on every hand. We are in the world, but we are not to be a part of it. "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world...And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof : but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever" (study 1 Jn. 2:15-17).

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be
transformed by the renewing of your mind" (Romans 12:2).

"We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from
God" (1 Corinthians 2:12).

"Christ gave Himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age
[world]" (Galatians 1:4).

"You were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live
when you followed the ways of this world" (Ephesians 2:1-2).

"Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me" (2 Timothy 4:10)


More later...gotta go to the store to pick up things for a special dinner..
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:39 AM
edjen01 edjen01 is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWSS1976 View Post
I look at it like this the petecostals only make up a small % of the world if the bible said something as clear as day more people would be doing it and think like pentecostal do the whole seprate from the world thing puts everyone thats not pentecostal in error which is not correct other people in the world understand the bible too.
being pentecostal and being separate from the world are two completely different things....and the Bible is very clear about being separate from the world.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:46 AM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

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Originally Posted by Justin View Post
That's the first time I've heard this. Could you please elaborate?
First of all, the bible stdying students in prayer in topeka kansas were attending a Charles Parham Bethel collegehttp://www.fwselijah.com/Parham.htm

The Church of God in Christ (black Pentecostal's) formed in 1907

The Assemblies of God (white Pentecostal's) formed in 1914

The United Pentecostal Church (both black and white members) formed in 1914

Quote:
The Conservative Holiness Movement is a term that loosely defines a group of conservative Christian denominations that withdrew from the mainstream holiness movement and trace their origin back to Methodist roots and the teachings of John Wesley.
the methodist, wesleyan, etc named the infilling of the Holy Ghost as the second blessing.
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:47 AM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by edjen01 View Post
being pentecostal and being separate from the world are two completely different things....and the Bible is very clear about being separate from the world.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Good point. In acts 2 the Jews that had the Holy Ghost and those that did not became separated from each other.
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:56 AM
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KWSS1976 KWSS1976 is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

Originally Posted by edjen01
being pentecostal and being separate from the world are two completely different things....and the Bible is very clear about being separate from the world

So the pentecostal ladies do not wear skirts all the time to be diffrent then the world to look diffrent to stand out in the world.. I don't think it is a diffrent as you think..
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:12 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Understanding Holiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie View Post
First of all, the bible stdying students in prayer in topeka kansas were attending a Charles Parham Bethel collegehttp://www.fwselijah.com/Parham.htm

The Church of God in Christ (black Pentecostal's) formed in 1907

The Assemblies of God (white Pentecostal's) formed in 1914

The United Pentecostal Church (both black and white members) formed in 1914



the methodist, wesleyan, etc named the infilling of the Holy Ghost as the second blessing.
Sorry but the UPC was not formed until the 1940's.
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