Can someone please tell me...?!

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

anyone ever heard of a preacher by the name of Bro Duke (he was blind I think) or Sis Fraiser (from Starks, LA area) who was, perhap still is, known as a prophetess....

Mal: I came into pentecost in a revival Joe Duke was preaching in 1970.

He had been blind for several years at theat time.

He was from Sulphur Louisanna as best I rememeber.

I can tell you lots more..what ya wanna know about him??

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by josh

Bro Strange, I am not sure who the "little" men were you had in mind, so I won't take offense. I also saw your heartbeat over the LA camp and greatly respect you for speaking your heart.

To clarify what I meant by "little men" was not spoken disparagingly. Mankind is little. In fact, what is man in the sight of God? We are arrogant when we don't see ourselves as such. What is man that he would be mindful of us or the son of man that he would visit us? Surely he condescended a very long way down.

I will say that I heard two of the framers speak their mind, and I can perceive no purer motives than these two expressed. Paul Price spoke to a group of us preachers shortly before the resolution came out...it was in the formation stages evidently.

We are in agreement here. Good men had good intentions in what I called their respective agendas...though not personal agendas. Each had the good of the work of God at heart. I could sense it within each of them. I sensed it in the debates that followed.

Many of us were young ministers. He passionately implored us to stop working to change the organization he had poured so much of his soul into. His focus was entirely upon the open statements many young men had made about being dissatisfied with the UPC, with its restrictions, etc. He carried us through some of his history in it, the men who molded him, the men who led it....then he spoke of rising to the battle to defend it.

Though I did not speak to this respeted Elder Statesman personally, I also knew that he wanted to keep the fellowship pure from his perspective. However, he should have known that a resolution to regulate the feelings of young men who were dissatisfied with the UPC and with its restrictions. Such a document would not change any of their feelings. In fact, it has had the opposite affect not only among so many young preachers but many of the older ones too.

He never alluded to any past battles, to any regret over a merger, or even specifically to the New Birth.

Ditto for all conversations with Bro Westberg.

I think you gave Dan and others an accurate assessment of how others came in with various ideas in mind, but I pretty much followed the thinking of the two men mentioned above...as well as my dad.

I felt that the document would be non-effective. I think before it got started good, Bro Westberg did, too. However, if we say that said document was a foolish leaning on the flesh then we must also render the same judgment on the entire articles of faith. They are all documents of man's attempt to legislate the parameters of a fellowship.

Creeds are set up for the purpose of dividing...excluding all who do not see eye-to-eye on at first the broader points, later the smaller points. They are never instituted to be anything more than what divides us up. To know each other after some creed will always cause men to turn in on themselves that will ultimately cause division and separation anyway.

I, for one, am glad that the document came. I don't think it helped with anything the framers originally intended. However, I do think it helped some of us see the fruitlessness of spending our passion and effort trying to affect something we can't affect. In reality it just became something handy to blame for the splintering that would have happened anyway.

Indeed, it became an instrument whereby blame can be placed on all sides of the spectrum of disagreement. My point being that if we are not led by the Spirit in these things then we labor but in vain...except the Lord buideth the house. When foundation is laid on sifting sand as we have done in these denominational deliberations, the descending rains and subsequent floods will reveal the folly of the framers...as it is doing presently.

For me, what I learned caused me to refocus my energies on the ties I can affect and upon the work of the Kingdom of God in areas I can actually be useful.

This is an attitude that more of us need to assume, regardless of the unrest that is currently being seen.

I realize some of your angst about the A.S. is probably from your pastor's feelings. I don't know everything about how he felt, but I don't think he was duped into speaking as some say. I think he was just as concerned about some things as others were. Then, in hindsight, he regretted that the A.S. was causing many to leave. From the outside of his mind and thoughts, I see him as making a voluntary and sincere effort, and then realizing he wished he hadn't. We all do that all the time, and most of the time it wasn't sinister motives by anyone that got us into it.

I believe that you assessment here is quite accurate.

Thank you, brother Josh.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Bro. Strange,

Very few realized the impact the decision would have, and most people, ministers or otherwise, are followers of those who have agendas. For all the followers in the world...just remember - YOU alone are accountable for your actions/behaviors and if you choose to follow then you embrace that which you are following. We all must be careful that we follow Christ and His kingdom agendas, and not men's self-kingdom agendas.
Blessings, Rhoni

Sis. Rhoni

A PROFOUND statement! On a Sunday morning, a number of years

ago. the Holy Spirit spoke to me, "There is MY Will and man's will,

There is MY Plan and man's plan! You MUST quickly discern the

difference! I will tell you, it certainly got my attention. It is something

I never forget! It pays to weigh (try) the spirits,to see if they be of God!!

And He will teach those who approach Him with a clean heart and clean

hands.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Amos

Absolutely not true.

You are a sweetheart, Sister, but there is no diabolical plot to expunge their memory from the record.

They just lived a long time ago and a long way away from most of the American Apostolics.

I had heard of most of them and read about some of them by the time I was 21 lo those many years ago.

We get our holiness roots from the Wesleyans, but nobody mentions them much, nor knows many of their names, if any...and yet there are no alarms sounding over them.

No point in creating drama where there really isn't any basis for it.

Yo bro...Prophet Amos, did you get by my post that I think this is a "diabolical plot?" Sorry that you took that impression...

Originally Posted by Barb

Yes, I am bringing it up intentionally. Evidently, you did not not pick up the heartbeat of my original post.

I have questions...questions I might not have had IF this information had been forthcoming from the beginning of time.

And weak on the doctrine, eh?!

Well, they were strong enough on it to be considered worthy of aligning in 1945 and preached in our churches and helped build an orgnization only to be kicked to the curb as a forbidden subject by the powers that be today...interesting, my friend...very interesting.

If you heard of the brethren I mentioned, wonderful, but many have not. These men may have lived a long time ago, but they were a part of the Church back in the day, and I would like to have known about it.

Here are their names again:

Brother WM Greer

Brother Earl L. Jacques

Brother EP Wickens

Brother John H. Dearing

Brother Wynn T. Stairs

Brother Raymond Beesley

Respectfully, as for the Wesleyans, they were not mentioned fom time to time in my youth, but the history of the Church and the UPCI were.

Further, I am not "sounding alarms" or "creating drama." If you know me at all here, you know me better than that.

Just making a point and expressing my opinion...and thank you for calling me a sweetheart.

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Mal: I came into pentecost in a revival Joe Duke was preaching in 1970.

He had been blind for several years at theat time.

He was from Sulphur Louisanna as best I rememeber.

I can tell you lots more..what ya wanna know about him??

nothing in particular.... maybe a few stories about how God used him....

I once heard a story once about how he was preaching in a small church and he loudly proclaimly, God wants you to come inside this church now and get right with Him! The people sitting inside knew JD was blind and looked through the open-air windows but saw noone.... JD said it again and two or three minutes later a man entered the back of church and came directly to the altar.... the whole time he had been sitting outside in his truck with his lights off listening to the sermon.... amazing story....

[Steve Epley]

Born and raised in Ky. I did not know about the East Coast men but heard of Elders Gurley & Greer of not believing the new birth message.

[Hesetmefree238]

Originally Posted by Bishop1

Here Are Some More Photos



Canada's Esteemed Elder O A Moore {Jacket}
& His Son J O Moore
In 1947 my sister receined the Holy Ghost at Bro J O Moores
in a Revival presched by Howard Hutto & Robert McKeithen

Bishop Don Johnson
Long Time ALJC General Chairman

Elder Derwood Hammer
Became Pastor upon Bishop M E Burr's Retirement

Elder Clarence Cross
R V Reynolds received the Holy Ghost at Elder Cross' Church

Who was your sister? My first pastor also received the Holy Ghost at
Brother Moore's church in Henderson, TN in 1948. From what I understand
they had a revival during that time from which came 2 pastors and 1
missionary. The two pastors being Bro. J.T. Plunk and Bro. W.D. McCollum.
The missionary was Bro. Cupples, this would be the father in law of Sherri, who posts rather frequently on this board.
My first Pastor was Bro. J.T. Plunk.

[Hesetmefree238]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

I also the occasion to visit with Don Johnson on a number of times. He later became the Gen. Chairman of the ALJC. I have not seen or even heard of him since he left that position.

Don Johnson still pastors in Memphis. He has been affiliated with the
UPC for the past few years.

[Bishop1]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

My first pastor also received the Holy Ghost at
Brother Moore's church in Henderson, TN in 1948.

From what I understand they had a revival during that time
from which came 2 pastors and 1 missionary.
The two pastors being Bro. J.T. Plunk and Bro. W.D. McCollum.
The missionary was Bro. Cupples,
this would be the father in law of Sherri, who posts rather
frequently on this board.

My first Pastor was Bro. J.T. Plunk.

Who was your sister?

My sister ?

Well Let Me Tell You A Little About My Sister ;

Her Dad
Was An Apostolic Preacher -

Her Husband
Is An Apostolic Preacher -

Her Son
Is An Apostolic Preacher -

Her Son-in-law
Is An Apostolic Preacher -

Her Brother
Is An Apostolic Preacher -

Her Sister
Is Married To An Apostolic Preacher -

Her Nephew
Is An Apostolic Preacher -

Seven Nieces
Are Married To Apostolic Preachers -

Four Cousins
Are Apostolic Preachers -

Five Cousins
Are Married To Apostolic Preachers -

AND FUTHERMORE

Sherri's Mother-In-Law
Is Married To Her Uncle !

"hsuse a bout dem apples"



Bishop1


P..S..
I Knew all 3 of the Ministers listed above

[Bishop1]

Here Is A Photo Of My Sister
Along With Me With Our Mother -

Bishop1