How many times did you ask God for the Holy Ghost?

[proudfather]

Any other instructions? What about asking? Well, that is mentioned by Jesus, in his comparison of evil human fathers and the Heavenly Father. I don't think He meant to imply that if we ask the Father, we'll have to wait a long time, or won't receive what we ask for at all.[/QUOTE]

Matthew 15:22-28 (King James Version)

22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


Would you say that she asked more than once?

[proudfather]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Wow.....when the bible thumpers can't find a verse to match their heresy, suddenly the bible doesn't count. Amazing.

Look, this isn't that difficult....the bible does NOT give any precedent for someone "seeking" the Holy Ghost. Period. Even more so, it does not provide any precedent that someone "sought" the Holy Ghost and didn't get it...or more accurately, Him.

Luke 11 is very basic and not difficult to understand. Strong's Concordance isn't needed, no Greek lexicons are necessary, for it just simply says, anyone who asks for the Holy Spirit, receives it. If......IF.......any person EVER goes to the altar and "seeks for the Holy Ghost" and doesn't get the Him, then Jesus was lying in Luke 11.

Haha. I love how you pick out certain quotes and ignore the rest. It's too funny.

[deltaguitar]

I finally gave up. I started playing guitar so I wouldn't have to deal with all the going to the altar stuff.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Matthew 15:22-28 (King James Version)

22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


Would you say that she asked more than once?

Yes. Hey, nobody ever said the Bible was consistent and had no contradictions! Uh. Wait. Never mind.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I finally gave up. I started playing guitar so I wouldn't have to deal with all the going to the altar stuff.

Poor guy....now you have to go through life without having the Holy Spirit in your life. That's too bad, I guess. What's wrong with you, anyway? Talk to Mike...he may be able to help you identify the sin you still have in your life.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What you are regularly missing is the context of these points we are making. Put down the straw and the A.D.D. for a minute, and get what we are saying.

Proudfather is saying that the way YOU believe in the Holy Ghost requires no tongues or anything, and such people should have gotten it before John and Peter came along in Acts 8. But it distinctly says they did not get it beforehand.

I suppose, Mike, all you can offer is accusing me of having A.D.D., straw something-or-others, or telling me that it's a messed up if we only obey the bible, or whatever it was you said.

I'm still just looking for an instance where someone "sought for the Holy Ghost", in the New Testament, and didn't get it.

I may have to take a nap. This isn't getting anywhere.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Haha. I love how you pick out certain quotes and ignore the rest. It's too funny.

Ok, so explain this:

Zechariah 3:8 says, "Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH."

How do you explain that??

[jfrog]

There is no biblical precedent on asking God for the Holy Spirit. By Peter, God promised the Holy Ghost to all those that repented and were baptized, even to their children and to those afar off and to as many as God would call.

I do not believe that Peter was a liar nor do I believe that God cannot keep his promises. So, if someone repents and is baptized and doesn't receive the Holy Ghost the only biblical reason someone would not receive the Holy Ghost is that God did not call them. If God has called them and if God is able to keep his promises then that person will receive the Holy Ghost eventually.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There is no biblical precedent on asking God for the Holy Spirit. By Peter, God promised the Holy Ghost to all those that repented and were baptized, even to their children and to those afar off and to as many as God would call.

I do not believe that Peter was a liar nor do I believe that God cannot keep his promises. So, if someone repents and is baptized and doesn't receive the Holy Ghost the only biblical reason someone would not receive the Holy Ghost is that God did not call them. If God has called them and if God is able to keep his promises then that person will receive the Holy Ghost eventually.

Peter refers to Spirit Baptism, John refers to Spirit indwelling.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by proudfather

If we are to only obey what the Bible says, period, then this would be a messed up world. There are some aspects of life that require common sense. For instance, there is nothing in the Bible that says, "Child porn is a sin". At least, I can't find it anyway.

When God gave the law to the children of Israel, they still needed judges to hear the cases of the people. Shouldn't the law be enough? Yes, additional teaching is required, because the law doesn't CLEARLY deal with every situation.

My point is this, we can't expect to find EVERY little detail in the Bible. However, foundation can be found in the Bible. We know that we shouldn't smoke because the word of God tell us that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost and so on.

Also, would you say that the 120 in the upper room were seeking after God? Their Holy Ghost experience didn't happen right away. All they knew was that Jesus had told them to "tarry at Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high". It didn't happen quickly, but they were seeking that power, wouldn't you agree?

This is the type of assumption I believed and taught for years. You smoke, you sin, because of the health ramifications to our bodies (temple). After time, we have seen an interesting transition within our movement. Apostolics love to eat, adding to the number one health problem in this Country.

The issue of smoking is nothing more than a diversion, hiding the sins we have and do within the Church. In fact, this has caused many to question our theories and strait forward stances on things. We tell people to stop smoking, while we die from over eating. This video is to the point with the facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-rZ...layer_embedded

The issue of receiving the Holy Ghost is also part of this problem. We have told people for years, "It's because you SMOKE. It's because you SIN. This is why you don't receive the Spirit." Then we go out to McDonalds and fill our bodies with poison, dancing around the person who just spoke in tongues at tonights service by giving them a "Super Size" meal.

Religion has always done this. We justify the ends without the means. We have these horrible gaps in our supposable “Truths”, and we dodge the bullet of the blatant facts by running around in circles with an old concept, while ignoring the monkey (failure, sin, addiction) on our back.

Next up; Anti-Depressants, Narcotics, and the other little buggers (pills) in our medicine cabinets. We tell people, "Don't drink wine!", while reaching into our vast array of addicting and mind altering drugs that destroy the body and mind.