Quote:
Originally Posted by Whole Hearted
Elder according to most on this forum the only ones who will be lost are the conservatives, everyone else is covered by grace and will be saved.
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Covered by grace - that kinda reminds me of...
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jude encouraged them to contend for the faith (truth) which was once delivered unto the saints. Progressive revelation? Progressive truth? I don't think so; we are to contend for the original faith/truth.
Kinda reminds me of Jesus telling
Peter 3 times to feed his sheep and Paul telling the elders of Ephesus to feed the flock.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
Its so interesting that the wolves wait unto strong leadership has departed before they enter in among them. I wonder why that is?
Notice in Jude that he said that they would creep in unawares; how could they creep in unawares? By being hypocrites - pretenders.
You see Paul knew that some would depart from the faith.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
They would depart from the faith, but notice that they would not go back to being regular sinners - they would somehow still FORBID & COMMAND some things. How could they do this?
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Because after departing from the faith, they would get their own teachers and start their own NEW denomination. Does history record a group that departed from the faith and started their own new thing, but not under the God-given authority that Jesus set up? Yes it does...
By 70-75 AD a New or NeoChristian Church was produced which was in a Greek dress of Hellenism and went on to become the Catholic Church - O.W. Heick, A History of Christian Thought, Vol. 1, Fortress Press, Pa., 1965, 1st ed., p.46; Adolf Harnack, What is Christiannity, NY, Harper, 1957, p.221
But for this group, was it enough to just separate from the apostolics and do their own thing separate from the apostolics?
Jude wrote that they would creep in unawares among the apostolics, among God's chosen people. It wouldn't be obvious on the outside, because they creep in unawares. But one of the characteristics that they would show is to turn the grace of God into lasciviousness - turning the grace of God into lawlessness. Imagine that, they creep in unawares among the apostolics, but the example that they show is to turn the grace of God into lawlessness.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Paul also wrote that they would enter in among them and some on the inside would even be turned and would speak perverse (distort, misinterpret, corrupt) things to WHAT? DRAW AWAY disciples after them.
So it isn't enough that they departed from the faith and started their own new denomination and did their own thing, but they want to come in around the apostolics who have NOT departed from the faith and want to draw them away after them. Perhaps by drawing away diciples after them, it might make them feel better that they've done the right thing by departing from where God planted them.
Did Peter have to say something along the same lines? Let us see...
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
As Paul said that even some of them would rise up, Peter said that there would be false teachers among them - among apostolics - among God's chosen people; somehow subverted.
And look what they try and do. Even tho they are false teachers - they have been subverted, they now teach something different than the true teachers; but its not enough for them to depart and do their own thing. No, they have to come to the apostolics who have NOT departed from the faith and cause many to follow their destructive ways. Why did they cause many to follow their destructive ways? BY REASON OF WHOM THE WAY OF TRUTH SHALL BE EVIL SPOKEN OF.
Kinda reminds me when Jeroboam rebelled from under the God-given authority of Rehoboam and put away the Levites - God's chosen ministry - and started up their own kingdom and their own ministry and told the people that it was TOO MUCH for them to go to Jerusalem to worship. Too much, too hard, you don't have to do all that when you can just do this.
So why was it so important for Jesus to tell
Peter 3 times to feed his sheep and for Paul to tell the elder of Ephesus to feed the flock? So that they would know truth, they would know what is expected, there would be no question. That way, when someone creeps in and shows a different example, a different lifestyle, the flock would not be taken in. That's also why Paul told Timothy to preach the word and to be instantly ready and to reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. So that when they see the people not obeying or sinning or doing something that is different from the truth that is taught, they would be rebuked and ashamed, and repent and get back on course.
What did Paul write about those who walked disorderly?...
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
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