Should standards be an issue when witnessing?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

What is funny is that staysharp's views line up with probably 99% of Christianity and church history yet he is the one that is wrong, ignorant, has had poor teaching, and is a bigot.

It is the view of the UPC that we are not saved by faith but by obedience and that they are the ones with the true understanding of the gospel.

Just go on youtube and type in United Pentecostal and you will find 27 videos of a debate between the UPC and Baptist. Our side didn't even know the Greek in Acts 2:28 or John 3:5 or the grammar.

I am sorry to say but WE are the ignorant ones and if we don't change we will have to give account for our errors.

Speak for yourself and your church

Personally you are living in the past like most or just refuse to see the change that has and is happening.

As for me and my UPC we have moved beyond the whining complaints of the Holier than thou revolutionist.

I will say it again, some will chose to hate UPC no matter what we do...

[CC1]

Originally Posted by scotty

Speak for yourself and your church

Personally you are living in the past like most or just refuse to see the change that has and is happening.

As for me and my UPC we have moved beyond the whining complaints of the Holier than thou revolutionist.

I will say it again, some will chose to hate UPC no matter what we do...

It is telling that you automatically equate anyone with issues and disagreements with the UPC as "hating".

Hate is a very strong word and words mean things. You should think more before posting.

There are many conservatives on AFF who disagree with me and my church but I seriously doubt many or any of them "hate" Christ Church or other PCI type churches. Why can't you offer the same courtesy and reasonableness.

Painting those who differ from you in the extreme is an old worn out tactic of religous sects.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by scotty

Speak for yourself and your church

Personally you are living in the past like most or just refuse to see the change that has and is happening.

As for me and my UPC we have moved beyond the whining complaints of the Holier than thou revolutionist.

I will say it again, some will chose to hate UPC no matter what we do...

Scotty, those who are licensed in the UPC have to sign a document every year affirming the articles of faith. Including belief in teaching water and spirit doctrine, standards, no cut hair, etc, etc.

Just over a year ago I was just like you. I really thought that the UPC had moved past all that stuff. We took our youth group to the Pentecostals of West Monroe and started a similar Wednesday night youth service to reach the youth of our city. We were growing at such a fast pace that we could barely keep up with what was going on. I had a meeting with the youth pastor at the largest UPC church in the USA to find out what they were doing and how we could reach our city.

I guess I had become so isolated within my little progressive group that I didn't realize that there were folks out there that were scared to death of what was going on and really did believe the manual of the UPC to the letter. I am talking about folks who taught me in Sunday school and who were my best friends growing up. They turned their backs on what was happening because of the fear that we wouldn't look "UPC". I was told by a board member that he didn't care if there were 5 people in the church that we were going to be what the name said on the sign and that mean't following the UPC articles of faith. These are folks that I thought were very progressive.

We were very popular for a while. But once they saw that we would not teach the standards and hype up kids to think they were having a holy ghost shoutdown experiance we found ourselves on the hit list. We became the enemy. We were just not holy enough and they didn't care how many lives were changed if they weren't shouting and wearing skirts it didn't count. There was a smear campagn waged against every one of our new youth by the parents and "core" youth that didn't like what was happening.

Yes, only a year ago I was just like you and I never would have believed people would stoop to such levels in order to preserve an "identity".

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by scotty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
On the pants issue - my best friend thinks this is hilarious. She wears pants, but not to church. I can't wear them because I feel sexual in them. She laughs her head off over that. I'm sure it was from my bartending days, but really, I will always feel that way about pants personally. I don't look down on others, but that is why I don't and can't wear them, plus they are uncomfortable.

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So to answer your question , yes...I believe some standards can come from conviction and some are just personal to you.

Believe me , I did not want to get rid of my games, one night I sat down to play and while it was loading it hit me like a ton of bricks on my shoulders......"i could be praying right now, I could be holding a family bible study, I could be at the church fixing something...etc etc. I broke every game CD I had right then and there and threw them in the trash...thats conviction...and I have been blessed tremendously for adhering...

Have you made better use of your time? Do you really have family bible studies in place, are you at the church fixing something? Just because we think somethings, does not make it a Spirit led conviction. A Spirit led conviction takes us to Calvary. Not fixing things at the church.

Fixing things at the church is fine, but the H.G. isn't interested in the plumbing.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

What is great is when the standard of a church in any community is such that folks in that community see them as godly, principled, honest, loving and giving people within their community.

Far too many people have defined holiness through what they have separated themselves from, rather than by what they have given themselves to. The focus of our lives should not be the elimination of sin. Once we have been saved we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin, but alive unto God in Christ. (Rom.6:11) Once we have dealt with sin, and begun, through our walk in the Spirit, to live a life that honors God, the focus should become serving God by what we do when when leave the church service on Sunday.

When we let our light (received as a result of salvation) so shine before our community that they see our good works, (Mt. 5:16) not only will God be glorified, but the local church will have set a standard that is very attractive to those who are looking for something real, relevant relational, and restorative.

When folks find a church that truly loves people the dress standard will be overshadowed by their acts of love and mercy! Believe it or not, committing sins of commission is not the greatest tragedy a Christian encounters, because there is a provision for that (1Jn.1:9). The greatest tragedy is the life we fail to live, even though we profess having received the life of Christ.

Now, why did you have to go and say something that made sense. You know common sense isn't allowed in the church.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by CC1

Painting those who differ from you in the extreme is an old worn out tactic of religous sects.

So then why is it so prevelant on here?

And why when others do it, it is "discussion"

[scotty]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Scotty, those who are licensed in the UPC have to sign a document every year affirming the articles of faith. Including belief in teaching water and spirit doctrine, standards, no cut hair, etc, etc.

So how do you explain so many UPC pastors who are licensed and sign that document and then turn around and preach progressive? Sounds like some maybe taking it TIC?

Just over a year ago I was just like you. I really thought that the UPC had moved past all that stuff. We took our youth group to the Pentecostals of West Monroe and started a similar Wednesday night youth service to reach the youth of our city. We were growing at such a fast pace that we could barely keep up with what was going on. I had a meeting with the youth pastor at the largest UPC church in the USA to find out what they were doing and how we could reach our city.

I guess I had become so isolated within my little progressive group that I didn't realize that there were folks out there that were scared to death of what was going on and really did believe the manual of the UPC to the letter. I am talking about folks who taught me in Sunday school and who were my best friends growing up. They turned their backs on what was happening because of the fear that we wouldn't look "UPC". I was told by a board member that he didn't care if there were 5 people in the church that we were going to be what the name said on the sign and that mean't following the UPC articles of faith.

and eventually that may be all they have is 5 people

These are folks that I thought were very progressive.

You keep saying that but all that tells me is maybe you should think a little harder

We were very popular for a while. But once they saw that we would not teach the standards and hype up kids to think they were having a holy ghost shoutdown experiance we found ourselves on the hit list. We became the enemy. We were just not holy enough and they didn't care how many lives were changed if they weren't shouting and wearing skirts it didn't count. There was a smear campagn waged against every one of our new youth by the parents and "core" youth that didn't like what was happening.

Yes, only a year ago I was just like you and I never would have believed people would stoop to such levels in order to preserve an "identity".

Sure they are out there, I know this, but you can not broad brush the whole org. *sigh*

[scotty]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Have you made better use of your time? Do you really have family bible studies in place, are you at the church fixing something? Just because we think somethings, does not make it a Spirit led conviction. A Spirit led conviction takes us to Calvary. Not fixing things at the church.

Fixing things at the church is fine, but the H.G. isn't interested in the plumbing.

aawwww...how cute ,,,,how long did it take you to word that together in order to look immature..

My sacarsm is constructive

Yours is just idiotic

I am through talking to you brother, your biased bigotry is annoying

God bless you

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by scotty

aawwww...how cute ,,,,how long did it take you to word that together in order to look immature..

My sacarsm is constructive

Yours is just idiotic

I am through talking to you brother, your biased bigotry is annoying

God bless you

What do you really mean, Scot-tay?!!!

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by scotty

Sure they are out there, I know this, but you can not broad brush the whole org. *sigh*

I am not broadbrushing the people in the movement. I have given you specific examples that show this is what the UPC is.

1) The hair doctrine is preached and expected to be followed. Mangun, who is considered very progressive, mentioned it at BOTT this year. If the UPC has changed, I want to see what would happen if a woman sang while wearing pants and short hair at campmeeting. What would happen if the GS's wife decided she would get her hair styled?

2) The UPC has no statment on justification by faith. Yes, I know that many in the UPC will say that we are saved by faith but will then turn around and say that to aquire or appropriate our faith we must do certain things.

Scott, I think that the UPC will change and get rid of the standards as well as the three-step doctrine but it has not changed yet. The folks in the pews may be "past" all of this but the leadership of the organization has not.