Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
Do you believe Jesus would do that?
This isn't about gun rights. I firmly believe in gun rights. This question is about the Christian ethic with regards to the use of violence and/or deadly force.
While I respect your belief... to me... we're called to a higher standard. We're called to immulate Christ. Since Jesus commands us to not be violent, not to resist evil, not to render evil for evil, to rather to be defrauded than to seek justice... many believe that "obedience to Christ" might cost one their lives on the streets of a thug infested neighborhood... or the in an underground church of in Muslim nation. Martyrdom could be around any corner. If seasoned saints aren't ready to die as a result of obedience to Christ right now... when will they be???
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Generally speaking I agree with you more than anything Ive seen in this thread. I am basing my belief on the whole counsel of God rightly divided.
Take this example:
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away . Matt. 5:42
Here Jesus tells us if anyone asks for something give it to him. So generally speaking that is the course of action.
Yet Paul gives us a bit more insight here.
10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work , neither should he eat . 11For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies . 12Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work , and eat their own bread.
2 Thess. 3:10-12
Here we are given to see that there are times it would NOT be Gods will to give to everyone that asks.
Another case.
11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Mark 10:11-12
Jesus says remarriage is adultery.
Yet here:
9And I say unto you , Whosoever shall put awayhis wife,
except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery : and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery . Matt 19:9
In this case if the wife commited fornication remarriage is ok.
So these examples are not contradictions. Its the Holy Spirit expanding the particular topic. Everything cannot be said, every situation examined in one setting sometimes. So the Lord furthers the meaning perhaps by someone else at another time.
So and leading to this. It is definitley the will of God for us to be peaceful, non violent persons. When one gets saved they should be taught this from the start. They should also be taught from the start they will suffer persecution if they live Godly in Christ.
I see no place where we are taught to retaliate or take vengence.
The difference I see is this. If one comes in my house and shoots my wife I cannot then in anger and vengence shoot him. BUT if I see him raising the gun to shoot her and I shoot him first....that is not rendering evil for evil. It is not taking vengence. It is saving a life.
And I base this thinking upon what Paul said to the Romans.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written , Vengeance is mine; I will repay , saith the Lord.20Therefore if thine enemy hunger , feed him; if he thirst , give him drink : for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:18-21
It may not be possible to be peaceful in every situation. If the same man came and asked me for food, drink, or rainment I would give it to him. Not possible to be peaceful with him if he attempts to harm my wife and I can do something about it.
As to martyrdom it should be taught on a regular basis to saints. The pre trib rapture and preterists doctrines have put the AMERICAN Christian to sleep and he does not think of the normality of a Christian being put to death for Christ.
The teaching of going through the great tribulation causes people to understand the great necessity of learning to die to self now. The less self the more hope one will be able to endure persecution or injustice on a personal level.
Im not saying I could EASILY lay down my life but by living a life of daily mortiying the deeds of the body through the Spirit because of my deep love for Christ I, you and every Christian must have it settled in our minds that we would.
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