So let me ask, if this was just about a man, what does it mean for that man to be justified in the Spirit?
The issue is GODLINESS throughout 1 Timothy. Man is justified in Spirit so as to explain how we LIVE BY FAITH. The JUST (justified) shall live by faith, not by self effort of law-keeping, which is living by sight or by flesh. This is how godliness works. We cannot live a JUST LIFE without the grace of the Spirit. Grace is divine empowerment here. Paul is not teaching oneness in 1 Tim 3:16, though he implies oneness for sure. He is teaching how godliness is required and expected of God in our lives from the start of the epistle. Read every chapter and see how he leads up to the third one speaking of GODLINESS.
Even GOD manifest in the flesh HAD TO BE JUSTIFIED NOT BY THAT FLESH but by Spirit, as our example. It is a contrast between being justified by flesh or justified by Spirit.
Paul began the epistle stating that the LAW was intended to make us godly in lifestyle, but Paul found that only through grace were these things abundant. Cp. 1 Tim 1:5 with 1 Tim 1:14. Romans 8:3-4 shows how the law could not accomplish its purpose, but God did accomplish that purpose of law through Christ. In fact, Paul contrasted walking after the flesh to live a just life from walking after the Spirit in Romans 8! This is the point of 1 Tim 3:16. We walk after the Spirit to live godly lives and that is what being justified in the Spirit means.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Godliness does not necessarily mean what we tend to think of
the greek word means "devout"
The word eusébeia literally means well-directed reverence, but does not imply an inward, inherent holiness. It is actually an externalized piety. Paul uses it only in the pastoral epistles....
When Paul came to Athens and spoke to the Athenians who certainly were not believers, but worshiped idols, he used the verb eusebeíte (G2151), to show piety, respect (Act_17:23). An unbeliever in the NT may be eusebḗs, pious, or may be asebḗs (G765), impious. However, neither condition is díkaios (G1342), righteous, just, nor dikaiōthḗs (G1344), one justified or having God's righteousness imputed to him by Jesus Christ, nor pistós (G4103), a believer who is characterized by the exercise of pístis (G4102), saving faith in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. On the other hand, the opposite of eusébeia is asébeia (G763), ungodliness, or, better still, impiety. ...
The Complete Word Study Dictionary
NET bible commentary. Grk "great is the mystery of [our] religion," or "great is the mystery of godliness." The word "mystery" denotes a secret previously hidden in God, but now revealed and made widely known (cf. Rom_16:25; 1Co_2:7; 1Co_4:1; Eph_1:9; Eph_3:3; Eph_3:4; Eph_3:9; Eph_6:19; Col_1:26-27; Col_4:3). "Religion" (εὐσέβεια, eusebeia) is a word used frequently in the pastorals with a range of meanings: (1) a certain attitude toward God-- "devotion, reverence"; (2) the conduct that befits that attitude-- "godliness, piety"; and (3) the whole system of belief and approach to God that forms the basis for such attitude and conduct-- "religion, creed." See BDAG 412-13 s.v.; 2Ti_3:5; 4Ma_9:6-7; 4Ma_9:29-30; 4Ma_15:1-3; 4Ma_17:7. So the following creedal statements are illustrations of the great truths that the church is charged with protecting (1Ti_3:15).
Robertson's Word Pictures
The mystery of godliness (to tēs eusebeias mustērion). See 1Ti_3:9 “the mystery of the faith,” and 1Ti_2:2 for eusebeia. Here the phrase explains “a pillar and stay of the truth” (1Ti_3:15). See in particular 1Co_1:27. “The revealed secret of true religion, the mystery of Christianity, the Person of Christ” (Lock).
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I was going by the use of the term since 1 Tim 1 in the overall epistle.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I was going by the use of the term since 1 Tim 1 in the overall epistle.
But the term is defined by what the word actually means.
Paul is speaking of the Mystery of our religion. Godliness is not a mystery.
NET 1Ti 3:16 And we all agree, our religion contains amazing revelation: He was revealed in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
BBE 1Ti 3:16 And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.
GNB 1Ti 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.
The term Godliness, as used by the translators, is not what we tend to think of the term (being godly)
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people,
1Ti 2:2 even for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
In 1Ti_2:2, the word eusébeia is coupled with semnótēs (G4587), decorum, proper standard accepted by God and His people, propriety, orderliness, seemliness. Eusébeia here refers to the simple worship of the believer, and semnótēs refers to the proper attire of the believer. Neither should be flashy for the purpose of making an impression upon others.
Complete Word Study Dictionary.
It depends on the grammar and how it is used.
Barnes:Of godliness - The word “godliness” means, properly, piety, reverence, or religiousness. It is used here, however, for the gospel scheme, to wit, that which the apostle proceeds to state. This “mystery,” which had “been hidden from ages and from generations, and which was now manifest” Col_1:26, was the great doctrine on which depended “religion” everywhere, or was that which constituted the Christian scheme.
Our "godliness" is the result of what Christ has done, the mystery of our faith is that He was manifested in the flesh etc etc etc all for which without we have no godliness. It's not personal righteousness.
Piety
reverence for god or devout fulfillment of religious obligations: a prayer full of piety.
2.the quality or state of being pious: saintly piety.
3.dutiful respect or regard for parents, homeland, etc.: filial piety.
4.a pious act, remark, belief, or the like: the pieties and sacrifices of an austere life.
A reverence for God will bring about Godliness.
Anyways I have to go for now, be back later
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
BTW does the GNB rock here or what?
1Ti 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.
AMP 1Ti 3:16 And great and important and weighty, we confess, is the hidden truth (the mystic secret) of godliness. He [[2] God] was made visible in human flesh, justified and vindicated in the [Holy] Spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, [and] taken up in glory.
Later
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
BTW does the GNB rock here or what?
1Ti 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.
AMP 1Ti 3:16 And great and important and weighty, we confess, is the hidden truth (the mystic secret) of godliness. He [[2] God] was made visible in human flesh, justified and vindicated in the [Holy] Spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, [and] taken up in glory.
Later
AMEN
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I did. I pointed out He was obedient to God, even to the point of obeying all the way to the cross and dying
Peter says He was a man approved by God according to the signs and wonders he did.
Here is another
at 3:14 But John restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me? Mat 3:15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him. Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him. Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
oh 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things. Joh 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.
The bible says He was without spot Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot;
Joh 16:9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe on Me; Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miracles Jesus did in Cana of Galilee. And it revealed His glory. And His disciples believed on Him.
Joh 3:2 He came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles which you do unless God is with him.
One more note, this thought just occured to me but this could reflect the resurrection. Whereas they ridiculed him and his claims to being Messiah and that if he died he would rise again. In being raised from the grave He is vindicated that what he said is true. That even his works, the miraculous works attested to His being who and what he claimed to be
That explanation sets the best with me.
__________________
You better watch out before I blitzkrieg your thread cause I'm the Thread Nazi now!
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