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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #161  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:06 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Easty most of the Protestant world sees it the way I do ... so who is doing the explaining????
Of course most of the world is blind by the things that are spiritual.
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  #162  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:07 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
Of course most of the world is blind by the things that are spiritual.
And of course you 'see' it all ...
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  #163  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:08 PM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
Of course most of the world is blind by the things that are spiritual.
You are reading the version of the Bible that has been translated by your previous church leaders and such. How can they hear with out a preacher. Make sure it measures up with scripture and some of what you are saying doesn't look that way.
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  #164  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:09 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
You are reading the version of the Bible that has been translated by your previous church leaders and such. How can they hear with out a preacher. Make sure it measures up with scripture and some of what you are saying doesn't look that way.
All the translations I know of are translated by Trinitarians.
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  #165  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:10 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
And of course you 'see' it all ...
No, I do not claim to, but I know what I can clearly read. Maybe you can better explain why others were baptized in the book of Acts, or are you gonna say that it really wasn't necessary for them to do?
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  #166  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:13 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
No, I do not claim to, but I know what I can clearly read. Maybe you can better explain why others were baptized in the book of Acts, or are you gonna say that it really wasn't necessary for them to do?
Who said it wasn't necessary for them to do ????
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  #167  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:16 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Who said it wasn't necessary for them to do ????
Okay, I hope you're having fun. Bye.
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  #168  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:22 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Originally Posted by J-Roc View Post
Surely, you don't think that you won't commit a sin from now until this Sunday, do you?

or do the really "minor ones" really not count at all....
I certaintly don't repent of them before hand!
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  #169  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:23 PM
Actaeon Actaeon is offline
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Meaning of "Eis" (for) in Acts 2:38

In Acts 2:38, Peter said: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..."

There are many who claim that the word "for" in Acts 2:38 means "because", making this passage mean that we are baptized because we have already been forgiven. This is an attempt to avoid the plain teaching of God's Word that baptism is necessary for the sinner to be forgiven. We are not baptized because we already have been forgiven, but in order to receive forgiveness of sins.

The phrase "for the remission of sins" is translated from the Greek phrase "eis aphesin hamartion."

"Remission" is from "aphesin" {af'-es-in}. It is defined as: 1. Release from bondage or imprisonment. 2. Forgiveness or pardon, of sins(letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty.

"Sins" is translated from "hamartion" {ham-ar-tee'-on}. It is defined as: 1. To be without a share in; to miss the mark; to err, be mistaken; to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honor, to do or go wrong; to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin.
2. That which is done wrong, sin, an offense, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act.

Generally, there is no disagreement concerning the meaning of aphesin and hamartion. There is much debate over the meaning of "eis" in this passage in Acts 2:38, which is translated "for."

To better understand Acts 2:38, it is helpful to read Matthew 26:28 where the phrase "for the remission of sins" is also used. The phrase in both Matthew and Acts is the same in both the Greek and English. There, Jesus said: "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. "

How can one claim to be consistent when they say the phrase "for the remission of sins" means one thing in one passage, and means something completely different in another? One common method used when studying controversial verses is to see how the same words are used in other, easier verses. Why is this method totally ignored when considering Acts
2:38? No one argues over the meaning of Matthew 26:28. The meaning is obvious. The only reason the meaning of Acts 2:38 is not just as obvious is that so many people approach the Bible with preconceived ideas and refuse to accept simple teaching that contradicts what they want to believe. We need to be searching for what the Bible actually says, not how Martin Luther or anyone else interpreted it. When the Bible says baptism is for the remission of sins, or to wash away sins, or to be freed from sin,(Acts 2:38, 22:16, Romans 6:3-7, Colossians 2:11-13), we can either accept what the Bible says or we will find ourselves arguing with the Author of the Bible.

Please pay close attention to the warning in Isaiah: Isaiah 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker!..."

If we teach we are to be baptized because our sins have already been forgiven, then, to be consistent, we must teach that Jesus shed His blood because our sins have already been forgiven. Who wants to teach that Jesus died on the cross because we are already forgiven? The clear teaching of the Bible is that Jesus shed His blood in order that we might receive forgiveness of our sins. If we accept this, then, to be consistent, we should also accept that we are baptized in order that we might receive forgiveness of our sins. If not, why not?

There is a Greek word that is often translated "for" and it does mean "because". There are some men, who, through either dishonesty or ignorance, argue that the word "for" in the early chapters of Acts means "because". Therefore, Peter meant that we are baptized "because" of remission of sins. The passages these men use include: Acts 4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. Acts 4:16 Saying, What shall we do to these men? For that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it. Acts 4:21-22 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done. 22 For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was showed. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

In all of these verses, the Greek word translated “for” is not “eis”, but “gar.” Thayer's Lexicon says that gar: "is properly a particle of affirmation and conclusion, denoting truly, therefore, verily as the case stands... It adduces the Cause or gives the Reason of the preceding statement or opinion."

Notice how "gar" is used in Galatians: Galatians 3:26-27 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

In this passage, Paul gives the reason why we are children of God by faith. "For..."

The Bible clearly says that baptism is "for the remission of sins", that it washes away sins (Acts 22:16), that through baptism, "our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed," (Rom. 6:3-8),that through baptism God has "forgiven you all trespasses" (Col. 2:11-13), and that the church is cleansed by the washing of water by the Word (Eph. 5:25), and that baptism "doth also now save us" (1 Peter 3:21). We must follow what the Bible says, and not arguments of men claiming that God did not mean what He wrote in His Word. Only by including these passages on baptism, can we continue to honestly make the claim that we are trying to be teaching ALL of God's Word, and not just parts of it.
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  #170  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:27 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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You go ACTEON ... great copy and paste job from the 'new' water and spirit doctrine theologians.
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