What is the purpose of Hell?

[mfblume]

Aquila,

This is in the same category as soul sleep. Who cares? It involves things far beyond our scope of understanding that we may never comprehend. God probably has a conclusion which involves reasons on His part to do what h ewill do that we could never comprehend, and perhaps even think unfair. But our minds are specks of dust compared to His. That is why the Bible spends NO time on it. We are not given an explanation about the issue in detail so as to avoid any erring confusion. It is not practical, and does not affect our need to learn to walk After his Spirit now and do things for His kingdom. It is brain candy alone. It is "neat" to think about and theorize. But it is a line of thought that is impractical, despite all its advocates' arguments to the contrary who want to keep enjoying the mental gymnastics of imagining all the implications for each viewpoint.

There is too much in the bible we are meant to understand with much detail given than for us to spend time on these issues. It's a rabbit trail of futility. Let God do what he is going to do, and let's get on with His kingdom work!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Aquila,

This is in the same category as soul sleep. Who cares? It involves things far beyond our scope of understanding that we may never comprehend. God probably has a conclusion which involves reasons on His part to do what h ewill do that we could never comprehend, and perhaps even think unfair. But our minds are specks of dust compared to His. That is why the Bible spends NO time on it. We are not given an explanation about the issue in detail so as to avoid any erring confusion. It is not practical, and does not affect our need to learn to walk After his Spirit now and do things for His kingdom. It is brain candy alone. It is "neat" to think about and theorize. But it is a line of thought that is impractical, despite all its advocates' arguments to the contrary who want to keep enjoying the mental gymnastics of imagining all the implications for each viewpoint.

There is too much in the bible we are meant to understand with much detail given than for us to spend time on these issues. It's a rabbit trail of futility. Let God do what he is going to do, and let's get on with His kingdom work!

For something thats "who cares" you spend a lot of time attempting to refute it. To me all this "dispensationilism or not" you labor about seems a titanic waste of time. When one gets pat the little phrase "soul sleep" to realize it is the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead it becomes the most important thing I know.

If the dead rise not this is all nothing.

[NotforSale]

Been dwelling on this interesting contradiction is Scripture (Old vs. New Testament), which applies to the Hell theory.

In the Old Testament, the Promised Land was a physical place, with physical people, a land of plenty. It was where man could touch, feel, and raise his family, and exist in reality.

In the New Testament, the World has become the place of doom, and we are told, “We are not of this World”, and to despise this place and to anticipate the very moment we are out of here. We are taught to focus on what we can’t see, touch, and to believe in something we can’t prove is real.

I find this very puzzling, how God supposedly changed here. God made this Earth for Man, for his home, for his reality, but we tell everybody, “Well, things are different now!” Wait a minute! I thought God was the same yesterday, today, and forever??

We’ve turned our Planet into place we can’t wait to get away from, and yet, this seems dark, strange, and totally bizarre because we are born here, grow here, love here, and strive to understand here. We brainwash our children into thinking, “This Earth is WICKED!” So, they believe that, create that, and the World becomes that. The hopeless heart is what’s left, and that becomes the perfect time for Religion to plant the afterlife.

Notice, after the Promised Land of the physical was lost, Hell became the Eternal Place for those not accepted by God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Been dwelling on this interesting contradiction is Scripture (Old vs. New Testament), which applies to the Hell theory.

In the Old Testament, the Promised Land was a physical place, with physical people, a land of plenty. It was where man could touch, feel, and raise his family, and exist in reality.

In the New Testament, the World has become the place of doom, and we are told, “We are not of this World”, and to despise this place and to anticipate the very moment we are out of here. We are taught to focus on what we can’t see, touch, and to believe in something we can’t prove is real.

I find this very puzzling, how God supposedly changed here. God made this Earth for Man, for his home, for his reality, but we tell everybody, “Well, things are different now!” Wait a minute! I thought God was the same yesterday, today, and forever??

We’ve turned our Planet into place we can’t wait to get away from, and yet, this seems dark, strange, and totally bizarre because we are born here, grow here, love here, and strive to understand here. We brainwash our children into thinking, “This Earth is WICKED!” So, they believe that, create that, and the World becomes that. The hopeless heart is what’s left, and that becomes the perfect time for Religion to plant the afterlife.

Notice, after the Promised Land of the physical was lost, Hell became the Eternal Place for those not accepted by God.

What is your purpose on this board? To destroy faith in Christ and the Bible?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Been dwelling on this interesting contradiction is Scripture (Old vs. New Testament), which applies to the Hell theory.

In the Old Testament, the Promised Land was a physical place, with physical people, a land of plenty. It was where man could touch, feel, and raise his family, and exist in reality.

In the New Testament, the World has become the place of doom, and we are told, “We are not of this World”, and to despise this place and to anticipate the very moment we are out of here. We are taught to focus on what we can’t see, touch, and to believe in something we can’t prove is real.

I find this very puzzling, how God supposedly changed here. God made this Earth for Man, for his home, for his reality, but we tell everybody, “Well, things are different now!” Wait a minute! I thought God was the same yesterday, today, and forever??

We’ve turned our Planet into place we can’t wait to get away from, and yet, this seems dark, strange, and totally bizarre because we are born here, grow here, love here, and strive to understand here. We brainwash our children into thinking, “This Earth is WICKED!” So, they believe that, create that, and the World becomes that. The hopeless heart is what’s left, and that becomes the perfect time for Religion to plant the afterlife.

Notice, after the Promised Land of the physical was lost, Hell became the Eternal Place for those not accepted by God.

God operates according to Covenant. In the Old Testament God's Covenant was with an earthly nation, regarding an earthly land, with earthly laws, and an earthly Temple. All that was under the Old Covenant was intended to be types and shadows of a GREATER Covenant to come. For example the Tabernacle plan composed of the Altar (Sacrifice/Death), the Water Basin (Consecration/Cleansing), the Seven Golden Candle Sticks (Light/Anointing), the Shew Bread (Sustenance), and the Holy of Holies (The Presence of God) typifies - Repentance (Altar Sacrifice), Water Baptism (Cleansing/Consecration), Holy Ghost Infilling (Anointing/Spiritual Light), Word of God (Spiritual Sustenance), Relationship With God (God's Presence in one's life).

The Holy Land becomes a type and earthly shadow of a greater spiritual reality. Israel's enemies being a type of the spiritual enemies that wage war for our souls. The Earthly Kingdom of Israel being a type of the all pervading Kingdom of God.

It's not a contradiction... in fact... its a glorious type and shadow of the greater reality which is what we experience spiritually today in Christ Jesus.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Aquila

God operates according to Covenant. In the Old Testament God's Covenant was with an earthly nation, regarding an earthly land, with earthly laws, and an earthly Temple. All that was under the Old Covenant was intended to be types and shadows of a GREATER Covenant to come. For example the Tabernacle plan composed of the Altar (Sacrifice/Death), the Water Basin (Consecration/Cleansing), the Seven Golden Candle Sticks (Light/Anointing), the Shew Bread (Sustenance), and the Holy of Holies (The Presence of God) typifies - Repentance (Altar Sacrifice), Water Baptism (Cleansing/Consecration), Holy Ghost Infilling (Anointing/Spiritual Light), Word of God (Spiritual Sustenance), Relationship With God (God's Presence in one's life).

The Holy Land becomes a type and earthly shadow of a greater spiritual reality. Israel's enemies being a type of the spiritual enemies that wage war for our souls. The Earthly Kingdom of Israel being a type of the all pervading Kingdom of God.

It's not a contradiction... in fact... its a glorious type and shadow of the greater reality which is what we experience spiritually today in Christ Jesus.

This sounds good, Brother. But let me ask you something. Where does it stop? I learned this whole concept over 30 years ago, but the parallels never cease. We've done this to justify our stance on the New Birth, and if you are a true Apostolic, we must be born again, otherwise we are lost. Do you believe that? If you don't, then what parallel do you draw with your new idea? What Old Testament verses will you use to conclude your new theory?

The contradiction is there; Physical (what is real), and the other World, which none of us have seen (not real). We are placing our total trust in others to determine what will happen when we take our last breath, and the fear of the unknown will always weigh on a human being. This is dangerous, and leaves the door wide open for us to manipulate people.

Why is this so complicated? Why are so many people confused today? We are all reaching for something in the beyond, while ignoring the very moments we have, wanting to simply get out of here, the sooner, the better.

God made this Planet. He made it for us. I watched a sunset the other night, and my heart rejoiced in what I saw! My eyes beheld the reality of God's wonder and glory. No books, no Religion, no screaming preachers, no false prophecies, no fantasy! The moment was real, and God had graced me with this moment. It was God’s gift to me, to store into the memory of my heart. No one could tell me it wasn’t real.

I've been pastoring for the last 14 years, and I've watched unbelievable problems fill our Churches. What we thought was working, is not. We gossip, hate, and almost crucify other people who don't believe like us. We divorce just like the World, and cover our dark hearts with Hair and a dress. Pastors fight over Saints like they belong to them. Our Pentecostal Celebrities are worshiped. I could go on and on.

Our method is under attack, and for good reason. If we keep drawing parallels, we can make anything we want. This is exactly where a million Religions come from.

I don't want to sound like I'm berating you, or not considerate of your opinion. I am. It's just time for change. People walk through our church doors today educated, knowing more about what we believe than ever. Old methods don't work; Men and women have tested our waters, researched our Faith, and they want REAL answers.

The old dogma of, "You need to be submissive and obey" is over. To me, Hell is the last straw. You'll go there if...............Yet, they will ask you, "Have you been there? How do you know there is a Hell?" Give us proof, because we’ve been lied to in the other church we just went to, the other Faith we just came from.

I’ll tell you where a lot of my thoughts come from. What was the World like before there was a Bible?? How did Man conclude his next move towards his Creator? His only resource was REALITY!

[godsservant25]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I’ve yet to hear a logical answer concerning the purpose of Hell. Coming from the perspective of eternal torment, what purpose does eternal torment in Hell serve? After billions, and billions, and billions, and billions of untold billions of eons… what will be accomplished with the majority of souls who have ever lived continuing to cry, scream, plead, and slash in agony?

Or could even Hell perhaps serve another purpose in God’s ultimate plan for all creation?

To me all of this is simple. I do NOT mean to trivialize any question. It is simply God Almighty fulfilling His promise to those that do NOT seek His plan for salvation.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

This sounds good, Brother. But let me ask you something. Where does it stop? I learned this whole concept over 30 years ago, but the parallels never cease. We've done this to justify our stance on the New Birth, and if you are a true Apostolic, we must be born again, otherwise we are lost. Do you believe that? If you don't, then what parallel do you draw with your new idea? What Old Testament verses will you use to conclude your new theory?

The contradiction is there; Physical (what is real), and the other World, which none of us have seen (not real). We are placing our total trust in others to determine what will happen when we take our last breath, and the fear of the unknown will always weigh on a human being. This is dangerous, and leaves the door wide open for us to manipulate people.

Why is this so complicated? Why are so many people confused today? We are all reaching for something in the beyond, while ignoring the very moments we have, wanting to simply get out of here, the sooner, the better.

God made this Planet. He made it for us. I watched a sunset the other night, and my heart rejoiced in what I saw! My eyes beheld the reality of God's wonder and glory. No books, no Religion, no screaming preachers, no false prophecies, no fantasy! The moment was real, and God had graced me with this moment. It was God’s gift to me, to store into the memory of my heart. No one could tell me it wasn’t real.

I've been pastoring for the last 14 years, and I've watched unbelievable problems fill our Churches. What we thought was working, is not. We gossip, hate, and almost crucify other people who don't believe like us. We divorce just like the World, and cover our dark hearts with Hair and a dress. Pastors fight over Saints like they belong to them. Our Pentecostal Celebrities are worshiped. I could go on and on.

Our method is under attack, and for good reason. If we keep drawing parallels, we can make anything we want. This is exactly where a million Religions come from.

I don't want to sound like I'm berating you, or not considerate of your opinion. I am. It's just time for change. People walk through our church doors today educated, knowing more about what we believe than ever. Old methods don't work; Men and women have tested our waters, researched our Faith, and they want REAL answers.

The old dogma of, "You need to be submissive and obey" is over. To me, Hell is the last straw. You'll go there if...............Yet, they will ask you, "Have you been there? How do you know there is a Hell?" Give us proof, because we’ve been lied to in the other church we just went to, the other Faith we just came from.

I’ll tell you where a lot of my thoughts come from. What was the World like before there was a Bible?? How did Man conclude his next move towards his Creator? His only resource was REALITY!

When you question all things, even God's very being, you realize that there are only two approaches that can be taken to discovering God. The first approach is reason. It says, if we can logically determine God's nature then we can deduce from our understanding of his nature what actual actions he takes. The other approach is experience. It says, I see the world and all the things in it. I see nature and people and their circumstances. It says, I have me experiences of how I perceive the world to be, and if I can deduce from these experiences some actions which must have been God, then I can learn what the character of God is through knowing what his actions are. These two approaches are the foundations to every understanding of God ever possessed by man.

Truly these two things compose the understanding of reality for every man. Reason and experience. That is all we have. That is our reality. Now our reality may contain revelations of God, in seeing the beauty of a sunset or gazing into a bonfire or starring up at the heaves. The vastness and beauty of creation is one testimony for the existence of God, and maybe even reveals a little of his character. These revelations of God from our reality are the only ways we can know God better.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

This sounds good, Brother. But let me ask you something. Where does it stop? I learned this whole concept over 30 years ago, but the parallels never cease. We've done this to justify our stance on the New Birth, and if you are a true Apostolic, we must be born again, otherwise we are lost. Do you believe that? If you don't, then what parallel do you draw with your new idea? What Old Testament verses will you use to conclude your new theory?

The contradiction is there; Physical (what is real), and the other World, which none of us have seen (not real). We are placing our total trust in others to determine what will happen when we take our last breath, and the fear of the unknown will always weigh on a human being. This is dangerous, and leaves the door wide open for us to manipulate people.

Why is this so complicated? Why are so many people confused today? We are all reaching for something in the beyond, while ignoring the very moments we have, wanting to simply get out of here, the sooner, the better.

God made this Planet. He made it for us. I watched a sunset the other night, and my heart rejoiced in what I saw! My eyes beheld the reality of God's wonder and glory. No books, no Religion, no screaming preachers, no false prophecies, no fantasy! The moment was real, and God had graced me with this moment. It was God’s gift to me, to store into the memory of my heart. No one could tell me it wasn’t real.

I've been pastoring for the last 14 years, and I've watched unbelievable problems fill our Churches. What we thought was working, is not. We gossip, hate, and almost crucify other people who don't believe like us. We divorce just like the World, and cover our dark hearts with Hair and a dress. Pastors fight over Saints like they belong to them. Our Pentecostal Celebrities are worshiped. I could go on and on.

Our method is under attack, and for good reason. If we keep drawing parallels, we can make anything we want. This is exactly where a million Religions come from.

I don't want to sound like I'm berating you, or not considerate of your opinion. I am. It's just time for change. People walk through our church doors today educated, knowing more about what we believe than ever. Old methods don't work; Men and women have tested our waters, researched our Faith, and they want REAL answers.

The old dogma of, "You need to be submissive and obey" is over. To me, Hell is the last straw. You'll go there if...............Yet, they will ask you, "Have you been there? How do you know there is a Hell?" Give us proof, because we’ve been lied to in the other church we just went to, the other Faith we just came from.

I’ll tell you where a lot of my thoughts come from. What was the World like before there was a Bible?? How did Man conclude his next move towards his Creator? His only resource was REALITY!

Hey, you're cool. I don't feel berated at all. In all honesty I'm wondering what you're ultimate point is. Can you elaborate?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by godsservant25

To me all of this is simple. I do NOT mean to trivialize any question. It is simply God Almighty fulfilling His promise to those that do NOT seek His plan for salvation.

I know that many don't seek God's plan of salvation. But the truth is that the vast majority of human beings alive today, and who have ever lived, never heard God's plan for salvation.

What purpose will it have served for the lost to still be burning in tormented agonies billions, and billions, and billions, and billions, and billions, and billions of millennia from now? Their sinful existence will have been less than 0.000000000000000000000000000001th of a percent of the entire time of their existence. Odds are after so much time in such torments their souls will have lost all rational thought and just be mindless "things" with their eyes rolled back in their heads in a constant scream for the pain, the only existence they can perhaps ever remember.

It makes no sense to me. Is it an undying thirst for the cruelest of vengeance and retribution? Is it entertainment? What is the purpose of this?

My brother was killed by a drunk driver on Drummer Ave. in Dayton Ohio at 7 years old. The driver run him over and drug him three blocks. When my brother's broken body finally fell free from being entangled under the vehicle the driver fled. He served prison time but is free today. I don't want to see the man who did it go to Hell. And if he's lost, after eons and eons of watching him suffer I'd be pleading for even his release. I just don't see Hell's purpose.