Tattoos

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Were tattoos called tattoos in biblical times? Or when the bible was translated into English?

Lev 19:28 is speaking of the artform very similar to what we know. Here is some good info on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo

[A.W. Bowman]

A continuation of thoughts -

One of the major problems in discussing the application of the Law, is that most of us Gentile followers of the Christ don't understand the Hebraic precepts of the scriptures - not that will in and of its self will correct all of our religious misconceptions. I wish it would be that easy - for if the Jews had it all 'right', then the world would be speaking Hebrew today and Yeshua would be sitting on David's throne. However, that does not seem to be the case!

For both Jew and Gentile (natural seed and adopted/grafted in seed), we need to learn the balance between the law and grace, as Jesus preached it. The difference between the 'Law of God' (in Spirit and life) and the ordinances and statutes that contain within them the curse of death.

Take for example, concerning the faith of Abraham, review Romans 4:16 and Hebrews 11. The great man of faith and the 'father' of those of the faith. Is faith therefore separate for the law or from grace? Of course not. In its most simplistic terms:

The Law is the reflection of the very essence of God's nature.

The ordinances of the Law demonstrate the approach a human must take in order to enter into a personal relationship with God - and the consequences for failing to uphold their side of the covenant agreement.

Grace was always present, even from the Garden of Eden, and it has always been associated with the Law and the standards of compliance as defined in the ordinances and statutes. Consider the grace extended to Noah and through him to his family - and which was also available to others, had they believed on Noah's testimony.

Back to Abraham: Even Abraham was under the 'Law', its associated ordinances and other covenant requirements, and even so, he also received grace that extended beyond himself, even to today.

Gen 26:1-6 And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. And the LORD appeared unto him, and said: 'Go not down unto Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore unto Abraham thy father; and I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands; and by thy seed shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves; because that Abraham hearkened to My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.' And Isaac dwelt in Gerar.

Without the Law of God and its associated ordinances, grace is a meaningless term and has no value or application. It was the ordinances (judgments and penalties) that were nailed to the cross, not the Law (Torah, Instructions in Righteousness), but until the written law was removed from before our face (death, the curse of the Law), we could not inter into the fullness of grace that was brought by Jesus Christ. A 'new' dimension, as it were, was added to the meaning and application of God's grace.

What we are left with is this: If you love me, keep (obey) My commandments, says our Lord Jesus. We are to continue in the Law of God out of love, not out of fear. We are to seek out and follow the law of love as expressed in 1 Corinthians 13 and to express that love for God, for one another, and even for the world in how we endeavor to observe all that Jesus commandment – the true and complete apostolic doctrines. Another way of putting it (stringing together a number of scriptural thoughts), “If you live in the Spirit, also walk in the Spirit, knowing that perfect love casts out fear, and fear dissolves in the knowledge that for those who are in Christ there is no longer any condemnation.” Bottom line: We are obey out of love, not out of fear. We obey God because of our salvation, not in order to obtain (earn or merit) it. Which is was God has said He wanted along: Not a master-servant relationship based on rules and regulations, but a family relationship (father-son, husband wife, brothers and sisters) based upon mutual love, honor, and respect for the positions we hold within the family, the Father receiving the greater glory.

There is so much to these precepts that they cannot be adequately explored in these pages. The only advice I can offer is this: The next time you or someone you know says something to the affect that, “In order to please God, this is what you must do …”, and there is no well established scriptural reference to support that instruction, set it aside until you have the time to study it through for yourself.

Place your trust in no man, is still sound advice!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Lev 19:28 is speaking of the artform very similar to what we know. Here is some good info on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo

Interesting...


So God changed his mind, now he doesn't care what you do to the flesh?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Lev 19:28 is speaking of the artform very similar to what we know. Here is some good info on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo

I read that verse this morning in my daily Bible reading. Seemed clear to me. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Interesting...


So God changed his mind, now he doesn't care what you do to the flesh?

Jason, for crying out loud!!! Come on, just concede!! It's ok to be wrong. It happened to me once. I was like, 12, but yeah, I was wrong once.

If you want to phrase it like you did above, fine, whatever. But you'd have to say the same darn thing about shaving and clipping your hair....and a TON of other stuff. When you grow a beard to your knees, wear a robe, sacrifice bulls and goats, and depend on the Holy of Holies for your yearly encounter with God, THEN you can say, "Nothing has changed!!"

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Interesting...


So God changed his mind, now he doesn't care what you do to the flesh?

God never changes his mind. He still wants any woman that marries and is not a virgin to be executed. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I read that verse this morning in my daily Bible reading. Seemed clear to me. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 seems pretty clear to me also. Know any good candidates?

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

What we are left with is this: If you love me, keep (obey) My commandments, says our Lord Jesus. We are to continue in the Law of God out of love, not out of fear. We are to seek out and follow the law of love as expressed in 1 Corinthians 13 and to express that love for God, for one another, and even for the world in how we endeavor to observe all that Jesus commandment – the true and complete apostolic doctrines. Another way of putting it (stringing together a number of scriptural thoughts), “If you live in the Spirit, also walk in the Spirit, knowing that perfect love casts out fear, and fear dissolves in the knowledge that for those who are in Christ there is no longer any condemnation.” Bottom line: We are obey out of love, not out of fear. We obey God because of our salvation, not in order to obtain (earn or merit) it. Which is was God has said He wanted along: Not a master-servant relationship based on rules and regulations, but a family relationship (father-son, husband wife, brothers and sisters) based upon mutual love, honor, and respect for the positions we hold within the family, the Father receiving the greater glory.

[A.W. Bowman]

For Cindy -

Lv 19:28, the term nor ‘print’ (naw-than'), is to inflict blemish on. The term ‘mark’ (kah-ak-ah'), is used to mean, an incision or gash (incision, imprinment).

Answer: No, the term tattoo is strictly an English translation/term, not a biblical one.

For the rest of us:

The conceptual (Hebraic) translation is that: One is not to place any blemishes on their bodies by the means of making incisions.

Before we get too carried away with the strict observance of this ordinance, we must also remember that no priest could serve in the sanctuary, approach the altar, nor serve in the Temple if they had a blemish on their bodies (Lev 21:17 & 23).

As one can see, this would throw most churches into a real doctrinal conflict. No pastor could even enter the sanctuary, much less serve anywhere else in the church, if he/she had any blemish at all on their bodies, much less a tattoo. And, the ordinances cited means ‘no blemishes of any kind’. Plus, these restrictions would also extend to, and apply to any ‘priest-like' or related religious function/ministry within the church!

So, what is to be done with all these ordinances listed in the book of Leviticus?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I read that verse this morning in my daily Bible reading. Seemed clear to me. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Oh goodness. And verse 27 is pretty clear too! Arrrrggggghhhh!!!!