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  #151  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:04 PM
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rgcraig rgcraig is offline
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 View Post
But NOT for answers? Interesting. So they should just READ the word and you take it for what you want??
No.

What's really sad is the church should be about saving the lost not keeping the saved.
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  #152  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:04 PM
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 View Post
So men cross dressing is NOT a sin?????
God knows the heart, and if the heart condemn the man, then he is condemned (and you are happy). But I know a very heterosexual man who dressed up like a woman as a gag for a skit. We laughed. Never questioned his heart or taste in clothing.
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  #153  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:06 PM
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

Bump for Deut.

Will you try and post a photo of yourself in a pair of women's pants?
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  #154  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:08 PM
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 View Post
So men cross dressing is NOT a sin?????
The dress doesn't cause the sin -- the spirit of wanting to be a woman is the sin.
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  #155  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:08 PM
John Atkinson John Atkinson is offline
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 View Post
Your mockery of the scriptures is not amusing. Tell me your complaint. (?) Other than you have an axe to grind with any preacher that steps on your TV or anything YOU dont want to give up or comply with.
LOL, that's just plain funny. I wasn't mocking the scriptures.

However some folks interpretation of them are highly mockable...

And using one verse in the Old Testament to put pantalooned women in hell is just downright mockable.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

These are scriptures too that state if you count on one part of the law you need to do it all.

The underlying principle of Deuteronomy 22 is about equal balance.



Besides, if you study into the origin of pants you might find they were originally a female garment.
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  #156  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:09 PM
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Bump for Deut.

Will you try and post a photo of yourself in a pair of women's pants?
LOL!!!
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  #157  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:11 PM
John Atkinson John Atkinson is offline
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 View Post
The ONLY "bifurcated" garment in the old testament was worn by the priest!
My question to you is this


IS IT WRONG FOR A MAN TO WEAR A SKIRT or DRESS ????????
ask him.....


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  #158  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:11 PM
DeuteronomyCh8 DeuteronomyCh8 is offline
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
Let's look at vs 5 of Dt 22 as DueteronmyCh8 has brought it uo concerning women and the wearing of dresses verese pants.

A woman shall not wear a MANS garment.

Please Br. Dt.8 tell us all the hebrew word translated "man" in this verse nd it's meaning to those it was written to.
I believe the scripture is rather "plain" in its meaning. It needs no interpretation.
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  #159  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:14 PM
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

DuetCh8: take a minute and read the words penned by a few ver scholarly men concerning Dt 22:5

there is no way this verse means what you propose it mean...and it IS the hallmark verse of the entire apostolic identy crowd.

It is the ONLY verse that, misinterpreted, is found in the entire old and New testament to stand upon when you command a women not wear a split legged article of clothing-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I. What do the words actually say in the Hebrew language according to the scholars? The first phrase - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man.


A. The first phrase, that which pertaineth - the phrase that which pertaineth is represented in the Hebrew by one word, the word keli, and it most generally means a manufactured article. It is most often translated as some sort of weapon or armor.


1. Scholarly references for the word keli: Strongs: 3627 kee-lee" something prepared, i.e. any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): --armour [bearer], artillery, bag, carriage + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon (emphasis Strong's) whatsoever.


2. Gesenius (Hebrew words and most references used by the author deleted) properly whatever is made, completed, or prepared...(1) any utensil, vessel. Gen 31:37; 45:20. vessels of gold, of silver, the vessels of the temple, vessels of wandering, outfit for exile. (2)clothing,* ornaments of a bride, also for yokes for oxen. (3) a vessel for sailing. (4.) an implement, a tool, musical instruments, instruments of the indignation of Jehovah (5) arms, weapons Ben. 27:3 ; Jud 18:11,16. more fully, deadly weapons Psalm 7:14. , an armour-bearer 1 Sam.14:1, 6, 7, 31:4,5,6 an armoury Isa 39:2.


3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 982g vessel, utensil, The basic idea of this root is "to bring a process to completion." The root occurs in all its forms 237 times. Of these 206 are verbal....The idea of being consumed is most commonly applied to violent destruction, often by war...


4. Wigrams, The New Englishman's Hebrew/Aramaic Concordance: k'lee Translated 45 times as armour, or weapons. Most other times as instrument, jewel, furniture, vessels, etc., but never, *not even in Deut 22:5 is it translated clothing.

Conclusion: The word keli most often means a manufactured item, quite often a weapon, or armor. *It is never, except in Deuteronomy 22:5, translated “that which pertaineth,” “clothing,” or “garment.”


B. The phrase translated unto a man is also represented in the Hebrew language by a single word - gibbor.


1. Scholarly references for the word gibbor -- Strong's, 1368 gibbor, ghib-bore; from 1397 geber gheh'ber, a valiant man or warrior, powerful: by implication warrior, tyrant: --champion, chief, excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one) strong (man), valiant man.


2. Gesenius 1368 author’s references and Hebrew words omitted (1) strong, mighty, impetuous, used of a hunter, commonly of an impetuous soldier, a hero, a mighty king (Alexander the Great), a mighty hero. [The mighty God: Christ is spoken of] these are the heroes, those who were famous of old; the lion is a hero among the beasts; also used of a soldier generally, a mighty warrior, Used of God, Jehovah (is) strong and mighty, Jehovah (is) mighty in battle....(2) a chief, a military leader, the commander of soldiers and the soldier. Used generally of a chief. (3) in a bad sense, proud, a tyrant, like the Arab.


3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 310 (condensed) (ga bar) prevail, be mighty, have strength, be great. Derivatives, man, mighty man. might. lady, queen. .... The Hebrew root is commonly associated with warfare and has to do with the strength and vitality of the successful warrior....(RSV often translates "warrior") The heroes or champions among the armed forces.


4. Wigrams, p. 289, 290, translated mighty men, mighty one, mighty hunter, mighty, mighty man, mighty men, strong, valiant men, mightiest, mighty of valour, strong man, giant, as a strong man, the Mighty God, the mighty. The only instance it is translated as man is in Du 22:5. Not so translated in any other place.


Conclusion: the word gibbor does not refer to every ordinary man. It refers to a distinct type of man, amighty man, most likely a military man or soldier which matches nicely with the word keli which most often means armour. By this interpretation the scripture speaks against the idolatrous practice of either enticing or frightening demons, something which would, indeed, be an abomination unto the LORD!
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Last edited by freeatlast; 01-19-2010 at 02:18 PM.
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  #160  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:14 PM
DeuteronomyCh8 DeuteronomyCh8 is offline
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Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

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Originally Posted by John Atkinson View Post
LOL, that's just plain funny. I wasn't mocking the scriptures.

However some folks interpretation of them are highly mockable...

And using one verse in the Old Testament to put pantalooned women in hell is just downright mockable.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

These are scriptures too that state if you count on one part of the law you need to do it all.

The underlying principle of Deuteronomy 22 is about equal balance.



Besides, if you study into the origin of pants you might find they were originally a female garment.
YES.....show me this! Lets see it! Please. Pants origin...lets have it. By the way are you circumcised?
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