I'm sorry if I haven't been clear or compassionate on this thread. I do love people, regardless of thier condition physically or spiritually. I only want to help folks who's health is at risk, and the Church, who's testimony may be in harms way.
Our young people are deeply affected by the way we practice what we preach. Telling the lost they need to lay aside evils that damage the body and mind, while not saying a word about the detriments of excessive weight and poor diet, is hypocritical and can become a "nail" in the coffin of discouragement.
I have crossed lines before with my passion. I get like Peter, waving my sword all over the place. Every now and then I review my ways and see an apology is in order. I find my desire ever growing to be with the Lord, as the words of Paul ring loud and clear; I do that which I hate. I'll be glad to lay down this life.
I'm trying my best to leave our youth with an example to follow. I hope I'm doing OK. Kids are full of questions, and the right answer is important.
Have a great weekend!
NFS
I think it's great to teach about taking care of our temples in every way. But not to focus on the fat or skinniness of people.
Like I've said over and over in this thread, skinny people often have VERY unhealthy eating habits.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Location: Where God can see me and direct my path.
Posts: 30
Re: Is Obesity a Sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne
My daughter is extremely overweight. Her problem began soon after she turned three, after being in the 10th percentile. She started gaining weight and I was glad. She was almost 3 and weighed 26 pounds.
By the time she was 5, she weighed 69 pounds. I kept track of her eating habits and took her to a dietician who said she wasn't even getting what she was allowed for daily caloric intake, which at the time was 1800 a day. She was averaging 1300 a day and very active, as she was also in daycare and went to dance classes and swimming.
Today, she's 15 and extremely overweight. She doesn't overeat, is active as much as her body allows, but the doctors have no idea why she continues gaining weight. She is having more bloodwork done next week, which has been a routine most of her life. Nothing is ever wrong with it.
But go ahead and judge her. Let her know that her witness to her friends is flawed by her appearance. Tell her what a turn-off she is to you. Suggest to her how she should follow your ideas about a godly approach to this National Health crisis.
What you don't know is that people aren't as judgmental to her as you are. She has lots of friends, is involved with church and her school community, is popular, and loves God very much. People aren't leaving the church because of her appearance, even when she's speaking in the front of the church.
Love is a wonderful thing.
My swan song on this topic:
Hmmm. Now I see why you are so passionate about this you Registered Nut. Your daughters condition is unfortunate, I'm sorry to hear of it. It is really the first case of ever heard of where weight gain is unexplainable. I won't lie or cling to my lines, I tell you that you've opened up a world to me who's existence I doubted (Have you consulted alternative medicine? There's some good stuff in there). While I empathize with her condition, I still cannot believe that this is a common occurrence, but I can see where my worldview might cause misjudgement.
To AQuietPlace: I believe you are right that most people don't think about fat the way that NotforSale and I do. Most of the time, because they lack self-control in so many other areas of their lives they feel they are in no position to pass judgment. However, the Bible does instruct us to edify one another.
Given the passionate responses that the question raised in this thread has generated, I would say that this issue seems to be somewhat polarizing. And it also seems to be a hot button one. I agree we must show the maximum love and patience with weaker brothers and sisters, but I also believe that it is the duty of prayerful, thinking saints to push buttons the church doesn't like to be pushed, to ask questions we are afraid to answer based on Biblical imperatives. Though it may cause temporary pain, it shall, in time, cause good things to happen. Yes, we should inspect our eating habits and how we treat our bodies. This spirit of self-searching was embodied in King David's prayer "search my heart O Lord and see if there be any wicked way in me!" When we ask this, and look into ourselves, how do we view excess? What excesses are permissible? I will be the first to say that a slice of pizza "ain't gonna' kill ya'!" But what happens when that slice becomes a whole pie every time, or part of an unbreakable daily routine? The Bible tells us to "let our moderation be known to all men" (Philippians 4:5). Whether we skinny people are observed liberally gorging ourselves at a pot-luck church function, or when our bodies reveal the damage of private eating indulgences, can we justify ourselves in light of the holy scriptures?
No one is saying taste not, touch not here. What we're saying is, as Christians, we are so concerned about the many aspects of how we live our lives, and still, how many will still allow their belly to be another god in their life (Philippians 3:19)? We can't act like a lack of self control in consumption isn't there. We've all seen discretion go out the window at church picnics where the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life rear their ugly head in a display of unbridled food worship-- of both the fat and skinny alike, RN.
There is one more thing I'd like to address if I may. I read a disturbing post about spelt bread, fruit/veggie toxins, etc. I've been down that road to. I've even made my own spelt bread with home-ground grain, and refused to eat non-organic produce! Only the best nutrition for my body was my motto. But as with everything, I found that, as people, we can go into unsustainable extremes (which can also be sources of pride, one thing healthy eater's must look out for. Food worship works both ways!). I found the supply of these things so hard to come by at the time, that I was starving myself by refusing the "better" foods that were available to me. So pesticide toxins, mercury-laden fish and food distributor conspiracies aside, we can't let these things make us throw our hands in the air and say, "hang it all!", and eat like it's our last meal. There are better alternatives to Wonderbread, cold-cuts and Kraft dressing. (Disclaimer! Yes, I do: shop at Whole Foods; think that arugula makes an cool insanely cool salad if you add walnuts, raisins flax-seeds and apple-cider-vinegar; and I do buy fair-traded organic chocolate.):
What I come away with, is, however we view food or fat, I believe we can all agree that never in the history of the world have ordinary folks (on a daily basis) dined like American's have for the past 100 years. I also believe we can agree that most of the church could stand to take some starting measures to make their diets healthier.
Thanks for a fascinating conversation everyone, and have a great weekend!
This thread deeply interested me. I read it from beginning to end. I agree with NFS starting assessments...yes there are some exceptions to people having other conditions that contribute to obesity and yes there are skinny people that also do not look after themselves and that does not show physically but does show up in other forms such as temperament (anger, depression, etc). I suppose NFS could have started instead of talking about the danger of obesity, to talk about the danger of not having good mental health....I would dare say that the thread would have been no different in it's direction of finding some people who have problems in that area that people struggle with and yet are judged....definitely more severely so than obese people. I found this debate very edifying and I appreciate NFS bringing this up and I ALSO appreciate all the other partakers in this debate...especially the "nut"! Balance of perspectives is good! lol
One of the cardiac surgeons and I had an interesting conversation just yesterday. He proposes that people who are overweight pay double health care costs because of the problems that it brings to their bodies. He was speaking of people who are overweight because they won't change their lifestyles and such.
He also said that it seems that many overweight people don't seem to think they have a problem, or that they are as big as they are. I can concur with this, as I was the same way...except when I saw myself in pictures with other people.
Since this conversation began, I took a better look around my unit. Yes, we have the little ladies who have COPD but never smoked. We have the men with heart disease but exercise regularly, eat right (I had one this past week who is a vegan, can't understand why he had to have heart surgery), but not overweight more than 20 pounds.
We also talked about how smokers should pay $10 a pack, with the extra money going to health care for smokers so the state and federal government doesn't have to foot the bill for their surgeries and procedures.
He knows my history, and asked if I thought gastric bypass surgery was the answer. I told him no. Compliance would still be a factor, and I have found that most people aren't compliant when it comes to HAVING to do something to be healthier, or even to maintain their health.
There was a lot more said, but these were the interesting parts.
In my nursing practice, I teach. I don't beat them with the information, but I am quite blunt when I need to be.
I witnessed an open heart surgery on Wednesday and the man was my patient yesterday. He's going home today, but I spoke to him about changing his lifestyle so he didn't have to come back to me.
His wife was there, who is also overweight (the kids are overweight too), and she even acknowledged that a lot would be changing at home for all of them. I warned them of the honeymoon period, where people are excited that they feel better and do well for a time, then fall back into the same bad habits. They both said they didn't want that to happen, and I told the guy (who is 47) that if he wanted to live past 57 and see his grandkids grow up (both their kids are still at home), he better stick to the changes and guidelines and doctors orders. I believe they will be doing that, but it's all up to them.
I have enjoyed this thread, and hope that we have all learned something from it.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Talking about heart issues. My husband has seen both a nutritionist and a physician about high cholesterol. He does not want to go on a statin drug. He thinks he eats well, but eats a lot of fat in my opinion, I think more than he realizes, but he is trying. I personally eat more fat and sugar than I should but it's hard to know how much is too much. We are trying to eat some vegetarian meals. Anyway, I said that to say that we believe in using natural things whenever possible. His MD also agrees. I had him on niacin but his MD is upping the dose by quite a bit. The MD takes niacin himself and is a vegetarian after having a heart attack. Niacin lowers cholestrol without drugs in many people. His nutritionist is very big on fiber. She says cholesterol is caused by not enough fiber. So, we are both using niacin and fiber. She wanted him to eat a lot of beans but said psyllium husk in supplements was also ok.
A couple of years ago, I cut out sugar. I went without anything for a few months. The withdrawl was tough...a couple of days of being REALLY crabby. But I was definately eating it addictively and had for years. It got to where I didn't even want sugar but that was hard because, socially, you are expected to have a piece of cake or whatever. Plus, I realized that I missed the enjoyment I got out of it. So, I started eating some again but still eat less now than I used to. (For example, I will usually have half a piece of cake.) I think I am not eating it addictively like I was. So, I am trying to find moderation in both sugar and fats. We did have bacon at lunch!! Naughty, naughty!! However, I don't want to feel like we can't have good food. I think portions and moderation is the key along with eating lots of fruits and vegetables.
Comments?
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Ok Kae,
IMO, your contribution in this thread is valuable.
I hope this thread works as a 'lively' location for good discussion involving "what we eat" but it does include some pretty volitile ingredients that could be stirred in by skinny "chiefs" ...opps "chefs".
I am not a person inclined toward hand-wringing because of "toxins are everywhere". But the lack of "real" or "living" in our food intake is undeniable...and, IMO, it is fully enabled by "a love of money".
Bread is a God-thing.
There is something central to life about this staple.
Deny (or corrupt) the potency of this staple and you have denied well-ness to a vast market.
A vast market is 'ka-ching, ka-ching' in the sales of some new, fortified (ENRICHED) symptom manager!
God did not intend for BREAD to be STORED.
Thanks for your kind words. I am not inclined to hand-wringing over toxins either. I was trying to make a point that good nutrition is hard to find.
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