Who then can be lost?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Good article! Thanks for posting the link.

Sure.
I thought it was very well written. This writer dealt with the topic very well.

In the end though, sometimes I think people will never be convinced that something is true if they have a vested interest in NOT being convinced it's true. Often, people will let their own preferences, agenda, or lifestyle influence their interpretation of clear scripture and/or scriptural principle. In the end, people can try to rationalize any kind of behavior if they want to. Case in point: Gay Apostolic churches.

But lemme not even get started on that.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

According to many posters here, everyone can be saved. Your only requirement is to repent before you plane crashes, etc.


What's disturbing is many here don't believe you need Holy Ghost infilling to be saved. The only requirement is to repent before you plane crashes, and you're on your way to glory.




Ephesians 1:13-15

13)In .....ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The bible reads the Holy Ghost is the earnest of our inheritance until the day of redemption, we are sealed with the Holy Ghost.


But hey, what do you expect from a fast-food generation?

I have heard people use this scripture to support the "once saved, always saved" argument too.

It's the kindness of the Lord that leads one to repentance. Just because a person prays and says, "Lord, I'm sorry. Please forgive me--" that doesn't mean that they have truly repented.

God draws a person to faith and repentance, not situations. If God doesn't draw you, fast death or slow death, you will die in your sins.

Repentance is commanded.
Baptism is commanded.
The Holy Ghost is PROMISED-- all I can do is seek God and wait for Him to bless me with His Promise. I can't just make up my mind and go do it.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

According to many posters here, everyone can be saved. Your only requirement is to repent before you plane crashes, etc.

What's disturbing is many here don't believe you need Holy Ghost infilling to be saved. The only requirement is to repent before you plane crashes, and you're on your way to glory.

Well not only is repentance enough to some people...but someone clearly said on another thread that if the man had the intention to repent, then God looks at that as repentance.

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Repentance is a frame of mind. If he planned to repent in front of his earthly father, he has repented to God.

So now planning to repent is equivalent to repenting, in the sight of God?

Is that how far Apostolic doctrine can drift?

From: Salvation = Repentance + be baptized + receive the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.
To: Salvation= Repentance + be baptized .... Holy Ghost is optional
To: Salvation= Repentance. baptism is good too, but not part of salvation. Its important though, at least for obedience's sake, so get it done. HG also good but optional.
Or: Salvation= Repentance. Baptism is just sign of an outward change. Not such a big deal if you dont get baptized, but do it when you can.

To now: Salvation= having the intention to repent. Even if you don't get around to actually repenting, God will consider you saved because you were really planning to do it.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well not only is repentance enough to some people...but someone clearly said on another thread that if the man had the intention to repent, then God looks at that as repentance.

So now planning to repent is equivalent to repenting, in the sight of God?

Is that how far Apostolic doctrine can drift?

From: Salvation = Repentance + be baptized + receive the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.
To: Salvation= Repentance + be baptized .... Holy Ghost is optional
To: Salvation= Repentance. baptism is good too, but not part of salvation. Its important though, at least for obedience's sake, so get it done. HG also good but optional.
Or: Salvation= Repentance. Baptism is just sign of an outward change. Not such a big deal if you dont get baptized, but do it when you can.

To now: Salvation= having the intention to repent. Even if you don't get around to actually repenting, God will consider you saved because you were really planning to do it.

You twisted my words, brother!

I don't believe an atheist can plan to convert on a particular day in the future. If he plans to convert, he has already converted! He can only plan to repent openly in front of his earthly father.

Repentance is a heart issue, so his plan to vocally repent in front of his father is after the fact. He obviously has already repented in his heart in able to plan to repent in front of his father!

Again, repentance is not saying out loud, "I repent!' Repentance actually happened before the words got out of his mouth!

[CC1]

The idea that someone can "plan" to repent later at a specific time and place is pretty weird to me.

Anyone truly at the point of desiring to repent would do so right then and there, not wait for a later date. It is a heart and mind matter not one dealing with a calendar.

The very premise that was given was flawed and unrealistic.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

You twisted my words, brother!

I don't believe an atheist can plan to convert on a particular day in the future. If he plans to convert, he has already converted! He can only plan to repent openly in front of his earthly father.

Repentance is a heart issue, so his plan to vocally repent in front of his father is after the fact. He obviously has already repented in his heart in able to plan to repent in front of his father!

Again, repentance is not saying out loud, "I repent!' Repentance actually happened before the words got out of his mouth!

No one twisted your words. You've made yourself very clear, and I understand what you're saying. I just strongly disagree.

A man who sees the need to convert, and thus plans to do so, has not crossed over into a converted state just because he plans to. He converts when he actually converts, not before.

By your own words, you equated having the intention to repent, with repenting itself:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Repentance is a frame of mind. If he planned to repent in front of his earthly father, he has repented to God.

But intention to repent is not repentance in and of itself, as your words would imply. Those are 2 distinctly separate things.

Indeed, it is the Spirit of God that open our spiritual eyes to the need for repentance, and creates in us the intention to repent. And indeed, a person can repent before God without necessarily uttering "I repent, I'm sorry" etc., although most of us do/did.

But after one recognizes the need of repentance, having the intention to repent is something that precedes repentance itself.

No amount of semantics can get around that simple fact.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

You twisted my words, brother!

I don't believe an atheist can plan to convert on a particular day in the future. If he plans to convert, he has already converted! He can only plan to repent openly in front of his earthly father.

Repentance is a heart issue, so his plan to vocally repent in front of his father is after the fact. He obviously has already repented in his heart in able to plan to repent in front of his father!

Again, repentance is not saying out loud, "I repent!' Repentance actually happened before the words got out of his mouth!

Isn't repentance turning around and going in the opposite direction?

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

No one twisted your words. You've made yourself very clear, and I understand what you're saying. I just strongly disagree.

A man who sees the need to convert, and thus plans to convert, has not crossed over into a converted state just because he plans to. He converts when he actually converts, not before.

By your own words, you equated having the intention to repent, with repenting itself:

But intention to repent is not repentance in and of itself, as your words would imply. Those are 2 distinctly separate things.

Indeed, it is the Spirit of God that open our spiritual eyes to the need for repentance, and creates in us the intention to repent. And indeed, a person can repent before God without necessarily uttering "I repent, I'm sorry" etc., although most of us do/did.

But after one recognizes the need of repentance, having the intention to repent is something that precedes repentance itself.

No amount of semantics can get around that simple fact.

What I'm saying is that if you plan to repent at a certain time and date openly before men, you have already repented in your heart.

You are trying to change my words to say that one is planning to repent in their heart to God in the future. In this situation, one could be lost if they plan to repent tommorrow for a wild time they are having tonight! In this case, they have not repented in their heart or else they would not do what they are planning to do!

Also keep in mind that publically repenting is not necessarily repenting. I've seen this happen many times where someone went back to the way they were doing things the very next day!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

What I'm saying is that if you plan to repent at a certain time and date openly before men, you have already repented in your heart.

You are trying to change my words to say that one is planning to repent in their heart to God in the future. In this situation, one could be lost if they plan to repent tommorrow for a wild time they are having tonight! In this case, they have not repented in their heart or else they would not do what they are planning to do!

Also keep in mind that publically repenting is not necessarily repenting. I've seen this happen many times where someone went back to the way they were doing things the very next day!

Why would one wait for a "certain time and date to openly repent"?

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Why would one wait for a "certain time and date to openly repent"?

The original post was about a guy on an airplane that planned to repent in front of his father, and the plane crashed before he had a chance. Of course the story is hypothetical.

I say it's impossible to plan to repent and convert from Atheism in your heart at a future date and time!